How about we carve a Spock or Picard or Mariner or really anyone else who isn’t a genocidal dictator? Hmm? Maybe?

No? Perhaps my dream for Star Trek has too much hope for humanity’s future? Not enough grit, tears, and flashy booms?

Agreed. I would have loved to have that kind of callback to the story.

That was a lot of fun to watch. Thanks for providing the links to the various segments!

Groundhog Day

Groundhog Day

Agreed. I’d say that Nemesis theme with Blue Skies is a close second. “A New Ending”

Now I have the ahhh ahhh in my head again. I like the OG opening, but hate the choral part.

Hear, hear!!

I realize I’m not adding much value by saying this, but… I still wanted to support this with a comment and not just an upvote.

So very true. Such a great episode!

This is beautiful! I love data and I’m delighted you were inspired by my post to gather the data.

Thank you for doing this!

I’m not sure. Perhaps “Captain and Crew Test” isn’t the right way to look at it either. ST:LD seems to do a good job of not focusing too much on one story or character per episode, so it avoids failure even if every character is “the captain”.

There would have to be some way of reworking the criteria to evaluate overall balance (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) rather than just Captain and Crew, I guess.

Regardless, that’s a really good question. Hmmmm

I like that idea. It measures the depth/breadth of the world-building that way too.

I love this! Now you need to do an analysis like this one on Star Trek and the Bechdel-Wallace test!

TOS is already a rough rewatch with some of its acting and portrayals of the future. I can’t imagine how tough it would be to rewatch it through that lens. Haha!

I realize you’re not trying to predict quality, just personal enjoyability, but I do wonder how it relates to quality.

I don’t mean for this to measure quality. To each their own, as they say. After all, it is just entertainment and I’m free to watch anything else or skip this or that episode. This is all just a fun observation for me, much like a discussion on the finer points of warp theory or Federation economics.

Still, I’m glad it’s something that clicked for you too. I figured there would be a number of people whose appreciation of Trek relates to this “test”.

… Even then, I believe [TOS] would have a pretty low “pass” rate compared to all the '90s series.

Agreed. I note elsewhere in this thread that I think TOS would struggle with this little “test” and it was THE Star Trek show when it all started.

(Incidentally, since Burnham wasn’t Captain until season 4, Discovery passes on a technicality for most of its run).

Indeed it would pass and I think the captains/crew of those seasons were well portrayed and balanced Burnham’s presence as a character as well.

I’ve seen this complaint a lot with some of the newer shows, but it doesn’t really resonate with me. A good central character ought to be able to carry a show, and I don’t hold Trek as being inherently different in that regard.

As you say. And to be clear, I’m not taking this too seriously, nor is it meant to be a complaint. Just a measure I noticed in my own mind. I am still watching all the Star Trek made, whether it “passes” this measure or not.

A fair point. However, I just think this sums up my preferences for Trek shows well and had a feeling that many would agree.

Meanwhile, other people might have an internal measure for their preferences which amounts to “is not animated”, eliminating TAS and ST:LD.

To be clear, for everyone reading: I have watched every episode of every Star Trek show; I greatly and sincerely appreciate and value the time, effort, and energy of the production crew, writers, and actors of every show. These media of entertainment are impactful and deeply meaningful. Every show has a message for its current time and future audiences and it is so important that, as a fan, I hear those messages and allow myself to appreciate this art as an audience member.

No arguments for or against these yet? I’ll nudge this part of the conversation by pointing out that TOS – THE original Star Trek show – seems to have a high percentage of episodes which would “fail” this silly “test”.

Definitely and many that fail. I wonder if it works as a measure based on percentage of the show as a whole. Then again, it really doesn’t matter at all; I only noticed that I get annoyed with certain shows which overuse a single savior for the show’s overall story.

I like that too. I’m not sure it would counter these “rules”.

How would you propose phrasing a rule for that non-Fed criteria?

To be fair, I think every series has a lot of episodes that would fail this test, some of which were excellent, like DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight”, and “Far Beyond the Stars” or TNG’s “The Inner Light”, but if used to assess a series, I think this could be a good metric.

Indeed, “In the Pale Moonlight” is one I thought of which fails as well. I still think it makes a good measure to see how many episodes of a show pass/fail overall. Only to see if it’s really about the whole crew or mostly one character. (Arguably, early TNG comes really close to being Star Trek: Wesley while mid/late TNG comes close to Star Trek: Data.)

I agree with and second many of your statements in here. Well said! A couple specific points I want to highlight:

Paul and Hugh

I really enjoyed those plots, especially about loss.

There was also no single overarching plot, so Picard could play a flute and live the life of an alien for a whole episode without derailing any story plans. The “monster of the week” approach also helped inspire some real good moral and philosophical debate that would otherwise never would’ve been written into a single story, but also some of the most cringeworthy TV I’ve seen.

I think this is the core of the issue for what I enjoy and don’t enjoy with many Star Trek shows. Surprisingly to me, Expanse does this fine whereas Trek/Who/SG-1 would trip over it and have.

In general, great reply with excellent points. Thank you!