Two months ago I did a post asking for the opinion of Discovery and the comments were mixed. https://startrek.website/post/29577558
The commander disobeing order to the captain in the first and also attacking her? Xenophobic military propaganda? I didn’t like it and that I like Deep Space Nine.
Now I’m watching Lower Decks, is very funny and has a lot of references to other Star Trek series, is really good, I don’t understand how a comedy who is almost a parody catch more the Star Trek vibes more than a serious production. I hope Strange New Worlds have something good, because I was already disapointed by the three seasons of Picard and the first episode of discovery.
I despise Discovery but having a xenophobic protagonist was an interesting idea if they didn’t abandon it to make Burnham the moral center.
Spoiler: you probably won’t like any of the other episodes, ether.
In the end, I think The Orville is the best of all the new stuff.
I tell every Star Trek friend I know to watch The Orville and they never do. Compared to Star Trek it leans more heavily into comedy, especially at first, but it’s easily the best Trek since 90s Trek.
I say it’s the best because it’s not a prequel or a retread. It’s its own story, and it’s also really fucking well done.
I think SNW took some notes, and that’s why it works. And I cannot fucking believe we STILL do not have a normal post-DS9 show.
The first like three or five episodes of Discovery are basically a different show than the rest. And a couple seasons in they change the whole premise and it’s a different show again.
Strange New Worlds is actually pretty good. Sure there are some weak episodes, some silly ones and so on but don’t forget Sisko got trapped in a board game and Picard was Robin Hood.
I do like Strange New Worlds and feel that it captures the style and tone of classic 90s Star Trek, that most fans love, best. However, I think the number of whimsical episodes relative to the overall length of the season compared to the length of seasons from the 90s tips the balance too far. I haven’t crunched any numbers for this comparisons, it’s just vibes but even if the ratio was the same, in a shorter season I feel you need more serious episodes to maintain plot tension and character empathy.
To be fair, SNW only gets a 10 episode season, so based on ratio, 1 silly episode of SNW is equal to ~2.5 episodes of TNG; it doesn’t take a lot of silly episodes to make it seem like a huge amount of silly in SNW.
I know we probably can’t go back to 25 episode seasons because those were always very taxing to work on, but I think 15 episodes is a good compromise. I think SNW would have really benefited from a season of about that length; even 12 episodes would be nice.
Heck, as convoluted as Discovery could get, from what I watched of the show (up to a few episodes into S4), it somewhat benefited from a longer season in the sense we had plenty of time for multi-episode plots, which are harder to develop in a 10 episode season balancing episodic and linear storytelling. However, I don’t think they used that time the most effectively, as season 3 often felt like death by subplots - the episode would take on so many subplots that, although each of them individually may have been good ideas, none of them ended up being particularly well-executed. It’s especially weird because they didn’t really need to do that; there was more than enough episodes to, say, have one subplot as an A plot and another as a B plot, then continue the B plot next episode as an A plot and have another B plot.
I’d take any number of additional SNW episodes. It’s the best of the new series alongside lower decks.
“MOOOOOOOOVE ALOOOOONG HOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEMMMM!”
To be fair, Burnham’s supposed to be a bit immature and make questionable choices, which in itself is really annoying to a lot of people, but a product of the plot, and another episode or two and it might might sense.
Also, like @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website, I am a little confused by the “xenophobic military propaganda” bit. Maybe it’s that you haven’t watched the 2nd episode yet, but without spoiling much, Burnham’s somewhat xenophobic actions go pretty horrifically wrong the next episode and basically cause much of the season’s plot. Also, the Klingons aren’t entirely villains throughout the season and show.
Mariner in Lower Decks is far more immature and makes far more questionable choices, but she is a beloved character. I think Burnham’s issue is that she has the emotional stability of a high schooler. You can have immature characters, you can have characters that disrespect the chain of command, you can have characters who make lots of mistakes; but you can not have characters who have a mental health crisis every other week.
Discovery is like a Star Trek show if nearly every character was some version of Lt. Barclay; crippled by their own insecurities and forced to overcome them again and again without ever seeming to actually grow out of them.
Xenophobic military propaganda?
Okay, I’ll bite on this.
I’ll grant that it’s been a long time, but that seems like the opposite of the message of both that episode and the season as a whole…
Not saying this is OP, but there is a shockingly low level of dramatic literacy among people now. It’s like they’re not paying attention any more and have zero ability to parse subtext.
While all first episodes catch viewers off guard, Doscovery is a big jump, from the 2000s to the almost-2020s
And it definitely tries to do things differently. It’s all a connected story, episodes rarely are stand-alone, and moral messages are mixed inside the story
That said, as you go on, you’ll find wonderful ideas that would nave been awesome on the 90s too. Surely a few things will seem off, but the concepts are very startrek. At least to me.
STD hasnt been a good series overall, picard is probably slightly better, with snw slighter better than picard. but thats not really a high bar. blame kurtzman for ruining trek.
STD hasnt been a good series overall
Sexually transmitted diseases are not as much fun as you hoped.
It’s only downhill from there for Discovery.
The exact opposite is true for Lower Decks, I hated it in the beginning, but it ended up being my favourite show in 20 years.
My biggest issue is I just dont like any of the characters and I wouldn’t want to be on that ship. That to me is the biggest flaw of Discovery.
Every other Star Trek I can imagine it being so cool to get to be there. Discovery would be awful. Being around that crew sounds awful and exhausting.
I tried watching it and got to what I was told was a peak episode in S1E7 and it was still awful and seemed like it would be awful. No charm. I compare it to other episodes in sci fi like it and it has nearly 0 fun and the fun it had was dark and creepy.
I just dont like any of the characters
Not even Saru? 😢
I just like watching Saru walk, the hand-arm sway is mesmerizing!
Commander Abe Sapien’s dialog early on is pretty rough. His character is entirely ruined by the forced tension with Michael.
I wish there was like a Season 0 where I could learn to care about the characters before the events of Season 1. I feel like it is taking me on a journey the characters havent earned.
The commander disobeing order to the captain in the first and also attacking her?
Not sure why this would surprise you, disobeying orders is a favourite pastime in Starfleet.
Seriously, season 1 is quite grimdark, but it serves its purpose and the story is allowed to progress past it. The show mellows by the middle and becomes positively saccharine by the end.
In some circunstances and was debated if was the right thing, and also, not to the point of actually knockout the captain to reach a personal goal.
Granted, it’s a relatively extreme case. But there are also real consequences to Burnham, which persist through the whole season, as opposed to the usual slap on the wrist or less. Most shows will have the protagonist thumb their nose at orders and convey that it’s a good thing. Personally, I like that it blows up in the protagonist’s face for once. But I’m also the sort who kind of resents Trek IV letting everyone off so easy after the whole Enterprise hijacking incident.
Honestly, I think what we have yet to truly see in Star Trek is someone in Starfleet who saves the day but ultimately cannot be absolved of their wrongdoing and cannot avoid the consequences if they’re not going to take the necessary steps for redemption - doing one important thing does not give you the moral license to do whatever you want.
They got close in TNG:”Ethics”, but ultimately the only “discipline” Russell gets is getting yelled at by Dr. Crusher - no investigations or anything.
I’d almost want to have an allegory for how we should deal with sexual harassment in the sciences, basically showing the senior staff handling the situation correctly and doing what should have been done with creeps like Richard Feynman, and maybe examining the negative tropes of past Trek. Then again, TNG has so many clumsy sexual harassment episodes that I’m worried it’d be hard to do the issue justice.
Although I’ve never watched Black Mirror, from what I’ve heard of the episode, maybe USS Callister did better than Star Trek ever could on this matter.
Every first episodes of Star Trek series rather suck.
You take that back right now, right now!
But yes.
Really? I personally enjoy the first episode of most Star Trek series, TNG, DS9 and Voyager, because are a good introduction of what the series is, even with some retcons like Deanna and Riker telepathy or Data being able to smile in the first episodes of the first season.
EDIT: Also the first episode of Lower Decks, even if teleports supposed to detect anomalies. But the idea of a zombie infection and everybody resolving it without problem is cool.
I mean, Strange New World’s eponymous first episode was pretty good. Otherwise a true observation, though.
Eh, I dunno. The opening seasons are usually weak (TOS is an exception) but looking at Encounter at Farpoint/Emissary/Caretaker and even Broken Bow they all do a pretty good job introducing the show even if the cast hasn’t found its feet yet.
Honestly, Vulcan Hello / Battle of the Binary Stars is spot on for how the rest of Discovery behaves. Pay lip service to science and exploration and, at the first opportunity, trash that and turn into an action drama.
While I think of all non-animated Trek shows, DS9 had the best first season, it still contains a lot of dogs. Move along home, anyone? My point is first seasons are rough. Discovery gets better in S2. I would watch it that far before you start SNW because it’s basically the backdoor pilot for that show.
I don’t think a mutinous commander is that outrageous a plot line in a universe where Riker once had Q powers, Janeway had warp 10 lizard babies with her pilot, Sisko poisoning a planet’s atmosphere on purpose, or where a man like Jonathan Archer was made captain of anything.
Is Disco the best Trek show? I don’t think so. I think overall it’s better than PIC though. So if you have suffered through that, you stand a good chance of being more delighted by Disco.
“Move Along Home” is a masterpiece; it’s the kind of bad episode that’s really fun to watch.
But yeh, I think it’s really stupid to dismiss a show based on its first season.
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Idk if I’d say nosedived. It dipped for sure, but it hasn’t cratered. It’s not a GoT season 8, that was a nosedive
