I’m curious whether calling someone an ultra has a generally agreed upon meaning here.

Not to defend any accused ultras or whatever. Recent post got me thinking about it though. It feels like a very loaded word and using it seems like in-group/out-group differentiation signalling or … I dunno.

Maybe another way to put it is often when I see the term being used it feels like its serves a similar purpose to the “tankie” label’s utility for anarchists and liberals.

I might just be running up against tone parsing issues or something, and so maybe this is just me or a figment of my imagination, but it often seems to limit or shape discussion when it pops up early in a discussion.

Again I’m sure I’m just Wrong about this, but it almost feels like a mild thought terminating cliche at least some of the time.

Not trying to fight with anyone, I’m just curious about the nuances (if there are any) with the term.

What does it mean to you and do you have any thoughts you feel like sharing regarding the role it plays in online leftist spaces?

  • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    6·
    11 days ago

    I think bordiga, the main Italian left communist, was correct with his analysis that the ussr never reached communism. I think anyone who says that they did or that china is currently communist needs to actually read Marx.

    when people say x country is communist, they just mean its ruled by a communist (marxist leninist) party. nobody thinks that china doesnt have money or state obviously.

    • Hyper_red [she/her, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      6·
      11 days ago

      IDK if I’m just too autistic or pedantic but I really prefer to make the distinction that they are socialist states with communist parties instead of communist states.

      Like I have also met some people organizing when I was in charge of a book club, who had only read the communist manifesto that thought the USSR reached communism so I don’t think its that uncommon of a belief NGL.

      I think you could say I am being overly pedantic but I really prefer to make the distinction, especially since it helps people who are just starting to learn and read theory understand the differences between socialism and communism.

      • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        5·
        11 days ago

        i mean yeah when i am discussing countries in depth i prefer to say AES states obviously, i dont think you are super pedantic. the issue i think comes more from the word communism having a range of meanings depending on context: communism the social movement, communism the economic system, communism the ideology. so when people say communist state most of the time i think its communism the ideology, not the economic system. irl ive only heard people say “actually USSR and China are not communist” to discredit the AES achievements and to distance the speaker (who wants to be seen as part of communism the movement) from these countries.

        • Hyper_red [she/her, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          4·
          11 days ago

          Communism is much more an economic state than an ideology. Marxism or Marxist-Leninism, or maoism, or whatever would be the ideology.

          I personally think it would be more fair to say X country has a marxist government whose endgoal is communism

          • starkillerfish [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
            3·
            11 days ago

            Communism is much more an economic state than an ideology.

            when people say “i am communist” they dont mean that they exist in the economic state of communism. i dont disagree with you. im just pointing out that it can mean different things in different contexts, and sometimes “X country has a marxist government whose endgoal is communism” is fair to shorten to “x country is communist”

            • Hyper_red [she/her, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
              2·
              11 days ago

              I don’t disagree with you. Early communists organized under the banner of social Democrats and other things before the ussr was established and people began to organize under the banner of communism.

              I think I could just be either pedantic or annoyed that people forget that states with communist governments actually need to develop into socialism.