Since October 7, more than 3,257 children have been reported killed, including at least 3,195 in Gaza, 33 in the West Bank, and 29 in Israel, according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza and Israel respectively. The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Yet some people still claim Israel is the victim! When the truth is that Israel is a terrorist state.

    • TinyPizza@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      The ol’ “you shot me in the foot so I burnt down your neighborhood and killed your entire extended family” defense. Unbeatable in the court of law.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I agree, except I think Israel is the one to both start and end this.
        I burnt down your house and killed your family, but because you shot me in the foot, I’ll burn down your neighborhood and kill your entire extended family.

        • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Don’t forget how they’ll cry to all their friends and relatives that they were the victims all along.

          • SirToxicAvenger@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            there’s a history of violence on both sides since the post-ww2 era. no one really has time or any real inclination to attend court

            • TinyPizza@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              Ah the ol’ “history of violence and I’ve got more killing to do, so ain’t no time for court” defense. An interesting strategy. Suppose it depends on the judge.

    • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      People see will see these numbers and still argue “they are showing restraint, if Israel was really evil they would just carpet bomb them all.” Like what the fuck is this then?

      • ???@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        This excuse of “how is it genocide if there are still Palestinians alive? huh?” is such bullshit. Yes, let’s wait for Israel to kill the very last Palestinian before we can bring out our memorials and cry over the genocide.

        • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          “The Nazis are killing Jews? Why would they put them on train cars then and have them work? Wouldn’t they just shoot them or bomb them right there? I don’t think it’s really as big a deal as it seems.” -American in 1940

      • Kashbus@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Ministries of Health in Gaza is Operated by Hamas, so it would not be outlandish to say these numbers are being inflated in order to push public opinion and international support

        EDIT: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/

        “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

        This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

        • TinyPizza@kbin.socialOP
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          1 year ago

          Historically they stand up to even Israels secondary verification. From the AP:

          “The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
          In previous wars, the ministry’s counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel’s tallies.

          • Kashbus@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Historically is not the same as current: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/

            “Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

      • WuTang @lemmy.ninja
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        1 year ago

        No it is not and all the douche saying “hu it is a bit more complicated” are just full of crap. This is smoke and mirrors. There’s no fucking sense, legitimization to their campaign on civilians, just fucking no.

            • Kashbus@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Article 34 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV states that the taking of hostages is prohibited

              I’m sorry that you are so clouded by hate

              • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Israel is an apartheid state. Apartheid is the root cause of the entire conflict. It’s also illegal under international law. This isn’t hard.

                • Kashbus@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I agree. But Israel’s apartheid actions are not just cause to enact rocket strikes, torture, suicide attacks, mass taking of hostages, mass attacks on innocents, or the beheading of children

                  It is hard, because there is no one side that has so far not committed a war crime

                  • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    You seem to be confused. Explaining to you the root cause of the conflict is not the same thing as justifying ongoing violence. The simple truth is that this conflict will only end when Israel decides to end the apartheid.

    • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
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      1 year ago

      How? Out of all middle east states, Israel is the only one where human rights are a thing.

      I am not saying everything Israel does is great (especially in East Jerusalem) but the attacker is Hamas. They are the aggressor and have to be removed for good. Just like all terrorists.

      • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I think it’s naive to think you can eradicate Hamas. The Brits couldn’t eliminate the IRA in Northern Ireland, nor could the Soviets eliminate the mujahideen. The US and French failed with the Viet Kong. The US just gave up on the Taliban…

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Obviously there are individual victims, but as a nation Israel is mostly responsible as those who have all the power.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Having power = the ones responsible?

          They have no power in Gaza. They haven’t had any for the last 15 years. The ones in control of Gaza and its population id Hamas, and the ones who doesn’t take care of poor Palestinians is Hamas. And the ones who get foreign aid and uses it for rockets instead of infrastructure is Hamas.

          Power != Responsibility. Life isn’t spiderman.

          • pavokk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            Israel has all the power over Gaza. They control who or what goes in and out. The way Palestinians have been treated I’m not surprised at all that they have ended up with extremist leaders.

            • Guydht@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              They control everything in and out huh… Does that include the rockets and anti-tank ammunition Hamas has?

              Give me a break. They had a free hand running their own region for over a decade, and that’s what came out of it. Lots of military means - zero safe zones for civilians.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            They are using way superior power only to oppress, that’s why they have more responsibility.

            • Guydht@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              They use their power only when needed, which is very frequently given that their neighbors advocate for civilians giving away their lives to serve a religious ideology, meaning they’re under a constant threat on their safety.

              Yes, they’re more powerful. But no, they don’t only oppress using it. If they did, you’d have what china did to their muslim minority. The use of power is large, but not disproportionate to their level of security risk.

      • dustyData@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No one is launching the nukes, because, well…first that’s not how nuclear deterrence works, like, at all. And second, most of the people with nukes are in favor of and support Israel. You are so off base in your comprehension of global geopolitics.

      • werty@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Westerner are immoral The US is in command 🏞️🌅🇵🇸🔜🔏

    • avater@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Well they are the victims of a terror attack by the Hamas and have a right to defend themselves also not by any means of course…this conflict has two participants who are equally involved in this conflict, your point of view seems quite one sided to me.

    • BillygotTalent@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Of course they are also the victim. Hamas slaughtered adults and children with no remorse. Now Israel is returning the favor.

      Both sides are aggressors and victims.

      • chepox@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        If someone shoots your dog and then you go to their house and shoot their dog. Are you justified? Perhaps. But you are still shooting a dog. And that makes you a dog killer.

        2 wrongs do not make a right. Never will.

        • aquinteros@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          yeah they aren’t shootin up the dog, they are slaughtering their entire family and burning their home, the proportions are a bit off here

        • emax_gomax@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Isn’t that what the commenter above you just said.

          both sides are the victims and the aggressors.

        • Duxon@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          How many Americans were killed by Nazi Germany vs the other way around?

          Intentions and moral frameworks matter, not only the sheer numbers of casualties.