If we keep it without karma, bagdes and other reward crap then the only reward is the information of the post itself, the plus that ir brings to the people involved. As a forum should be.
Man so far i am loving lemmy and the fediverse. Clunky? Yes. But i love this real sense of community that was lost at reddit. Losing RIF was truly a blessing in disguise. I hope more people will move here but even if they don’t, I am ok. I am sick and tired of my data being something that goes to feed the pockets of some corporation. Fuck it.
Clunky is good, as my dad says: “imperfection adds character, a sort of rustic appeal”
I’m hoping I can get a feed from as many communities as I did subreddits. one thing I’ve noticed so far is not as much content is posted here, but I guess for obvious reasons.
+1 lemmy gold to you stranger!
Take this SiLvEr. It’s all I can afford.
lmfao that made me laugh out loud. it caught me off guard
I love that vintage silver is back, and the sloppy photoshop job to slap Lemmy onto it only makes it better.
Not even the effort to type out Lemmy themselves, ripped straight from a webpage. Perfection
Commenting for the bronze coming my way any time now.
🟤 close enough, whether you view it as more valuable due to lack of effort or less valuable cause its an emoji is completely up to you!
Totally agree. I don’t want karma. It was useless anyways.
For the most part. The reality is upvotes for people serve as dopamine boosts and they crave it. It helps drive engagement, and of course addiction.
Karma’s a bitch or something.
Karma is the wind in my hair on the weekend.
Well it’s also useful feedback for training neural networks to make engaging posts.
Same thing, really.
I noticed that I don’t have a karma or upvote counter for my account, and I felt free. Let’s keep it that way. It just encourages more ego and skin in the discussion ahead of focusing on the content and further penalizes users who sometimes have an unpopular, but still civil and constructive, opinion. I don’t want an echo chamber effect.
I imagine that implementing such a metric could become quite confusing if it turned out that not all instances permitted all communities in the future. If this is already the case, please excuse me. I’ve been on Lemmy for one hour total. Solving that consistency problem couldn’t be easier than just not solving it.
Hate to break it to ya but that’s just your UI from whatever app you’re using; you definitely have a “karma” score / upvote score, currently at 47 comment upvotes total.
As someone who used reddit when Dig was still big; let Karma die, it’s so stupid.
100% agree! It’s so nice right now to not see dumb posts when users trying to karma farm. I have been loving Lemmy so far. I just hope we get more users so we can get more engagement from the smaller communities.
Agree with this too, we don’t need that sh*t here.
Yeah agreed. It’s one thing to implement it years ago before seeing how it would shape the users behaviour. But now we know let’s just let it be reddit nostalgia
Yeah agreed. It’s one thing to implement it years ago before seeing how it would shape the users behaviour. But now we know let’s just let it be reddit nostalgia
Yeah agreed. It’s one thing to implement years ago before seeing how it would shape the users behaviour. But now we know let’s just let it be reddit nostalgia
Honestly I don’t mind the upvote and downvote system but i don’t want reddit replicated.
At this point, I reckon no one on Lemmy wants Reddit replicated in any shape or form…
As a recent refugee, if there was a carbon copy of reddit owned by some sort of non profit organization or funded by public money I would most definitely use that. Provided of course the monetization crap and ads were removed and I can have my Apollo app back.
Nothing wrong with this new federated direction we are taking now, but what made reddit shitty is corporate greed and an infantile moron as decisionmaker, not that it was centralized.
If you want an Apollo style Lemmy app, I would wholeheartedly recommend wefwef. It looks just like Apollo but it uses Lemmy instead of Reddit.
I already installed it yesterday, good suggestion. It looks and feels 99% like Apollo, only that it’s a bit sluggish here and there (though that’s probably just a matter of time until optimized). For anyone missing their Apollo app this is the thing to get.
Upvoting posts is fine, but Karma I can do without. Back on Reddit sometimes I help somebody with something and I get maybe 3 or 4 Karma. Make a stupid joke in a popular Thread and get that hundred fold. Karma is useless.
I wouldn’t mind some sort of rating scale at least, but nothing infinitely growing like reddit karma.
I found the karma useful to see if someone had a relatively well used account, was a karma farming bot, a shit poster, a lurker, or an asshole.
Maybe just a scale to determine an accounts total relative ratio of upvotes to down votes?
Lemmy is a classless, stateless, and karmaless society
classless
Lol
You are now expelled from our anarcho-communist utopia
Good. Karma just incentivizes the monetization of accounts. Without karma there is less incentive for bots and grifters since visibility/prominence/influence can no longer be bought and sold.
I really hope that Lemmy will never have it. Karma destroyed Reddit.
it kinda did yeah…awards were fun though
Awards on lemmy would be a great way to subsidize server costs.
^Mother fucker^… *Digs out wallet
The eye shines make it look wall-eyed.
Now I can’t unsee it.
This is cool what program did you use to make it?
Thanks! It was just from Midjourney.
100% want this.
Wouldn’t you be able to make awards pointless by running an instance that handed them out without any payment?
Personally, I hated awards on Reddit and always disabled them in my client.
The technicalities are above my head but I don’t see how/why.
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Couldn’t other instances somehow prevent those awards from displaying on theirs?
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Doesn’t make sense to do by someone paying to host an instance.
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Wouldn’t everyone have to create users on that specific instance to do it?
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I don’t know how it could be implemented across the fediverse. But if they could figure it out I would pay. I was a Reddit premium payer just because I loved giving awards.
The trick would be making it work across all instances. Because I could see some just opting out and then it would be broken across many different communities.
I made a mockup:
Silver Lemming:
Gold Lemming:
Platinum Lemming:
Silver and Plat look the same to me
Gold looks like piss
awards = cool
awards that increase visibility, comment rank, other pay2influence = no likee
good point!
That being said, sorting by awards was kinda useful. Except do away with reddits ridiculously specific ones. Keep it to stuff like Gold, Helpful, Hilarious.
No, please no! That goes so much against the spirit of the Fediverse and FOSS!
How so?
Honestly not to me. They’ve always felt like…
When it was just reddit gold and it was just for server costs I thought it was okay, but they had to make a bunch of different ones as well to the point they lost all meaning.
Attendance trophy.
I once got Inciteful Post of the Day.
No, that’s not a typo.
What did you incite?
Basically Jordan Peterson being an asshat.
OMG that’s awesome!
Did it? I never got the point.
I remember Reddit in its early days (it was founded in 2005). The conversations were intelligent and I participated in a lot of them. When they introduced karma, I noticed that people were using it as a badge of honor. People started posting shitty one-liners to get upvotes, but those posts had no meaning.
So I started posting less and less. Lemmy/Kbin reminds me of the early days of Reddit, and I hope it stays that way.
Karma farmers, then they sell to advertisers or political entities, pushing an agenda.
The problem was that you had to have a certain amount of karma to post in some subreddits.
Technically, Lemmy does keep track of your total post/comment votes. It’s just not visible from the current client. Hopefully it stays that way.
I hope so too, I tried the wefwef app (pwa) for lemmy and it should ‘points’, I assume upvotes, really annoying.
If there was one change on Reddit to make it’d be to get rid of karma. Upvotes and such show support and disapproval, but karma just pushes people into shitty social media actions.
I amassed a huge amount of karma and I have no idea what that meant? The truth was “I posted a lot” that’s all.
If any devs ever implement karma into Lemmy, I will shut down my subs and leave.
I mean that with 100% seriousness. Karma is one of the most evil concepts ever conceived in the history of the internet. It brings out the darkness in a motherfucker.
Excuse me if I’m just dense, but when I look at peoples profiles in wefwef, it shows me their comment score and post score.
Is that somehow different from what Karma was?
That’s probably a good reason not to use Wefwef 🤦
Here, your comments can be upvoted and downvoted, but it’s purposefully not totaled and kept separate from your profile. I don’t know why the devs of that app decided to total them all together – that total is your karma and people did tie their self-worth and their social standing to their karma. It’s what made Reddit so toxic
We all better go say something to the Wefwef devs and make them take that shit off
yeah. Karma was really bad when you happened to say something that was either misunderstood or maybe a valid oppinion but against the population of the sub. I dared to say that men and women differ in some life-experiences around puberty in BadGirlsAnatomy once… They took that as if I was invalidating their experiences somehow… holy cow the downvotes!
Karma made me feel those downvotes, because they had some permanent impact on my overall profile, so I never dared to discuss anything in that sub ever again, leading to bubbles. I ain’t wanting that back.
Karma gave a way of guaging people reputation - if you were negative karma, because each negatively voted post only counted for a minimum of -10 additional karma, it was easy to tell if the majority of posts on a user profile were negatively geared.
Now with Lemmy, in order to tell this, you actually have to look at the posts and comments, which means you have more chances of reading them and gaining context as to why they seem to be such a contrarian.
It inherently leads to less judgement simply because it’s not as bleedingly obvious how bad someone’s comments are. Which in turn, leads to a better feel to the community and less dogpiling.
Also it gives people a greater chance to make a “come back” - they may go through a negative streak, but because people don’t discount their opinions simply because of karma score they can more easily climb out of the negative spiral as people less people will look, and those who do only look at the most recent comment scores.
Positivity breeds positivity, likewise negativity breeds negativity, often faster than positivity.
Kbin has a total reputation score, but it’s broken and pretty much meaningless. Downvotes will subtract reputation, but upvotes don’t add to it, only “boosts” do. While I had perpetually negative reputation from that, I didn’t mind, but as soon as it went positive from a single highly-boosted comment, I immediately started dropping back into old mentalities.
Guess switching over to Lemmy to use Boost might not have been such a bad thing.
Wefwef is based off of Apollo. Apollo had a karma counter, and so does wefwef.
OK so I’m not crazy, this is basically just karma then, yeah? Just like “client side calculated” (I’m assuming at least, if Lemmy doesn’t have native support for a concept like karma) karma lol
Yep, wefwef karma seems to be client side. I have it too on my wefwef.
Edit: Am wrong, see response from developer below.
Wefwef dev here, it’s not calculated client side. post and comment score is in the api response of every user.
I actually had no idea the Lemmy web client doesn’t display this when I implemented in wefwef
Can we have a talk about that? Please for the love of all that is holy, don’t actually display karma scores in wefwef. Please. :(
Imo both sides of this argument are way overblown. If Karma scores affected you that much, positively or negatively, you should be taking a long break from social media and having a chat with a counsellor.
I don’t mean that as an insult, it really is the kind of thing that only matters if you’ve gone so far terminally online that it’s seriously affecting your mental health.
Damn, I didn’t know that. Wefwef is the best PWA I have used to date though, nice work!
I always thought there was some merit to it, like, indicative of someone’s history in engagement on a platform, no?
I get that it becomes less and less meaningful as people farm it, but there is there no balancing point?
I think people grossely overestimate what people did “for karma”.
Bots farm karma to seem like legitimate users and bypass min-karma rules.
Real users didn’t give a shit about the little karma number aside from the fact it told them their stuff got a lot of attention. It could have been a circle with a color gradient and people would have used it as a measure of success anyway.
People are still going to farm here because they want the attention, it doesn’t matter what the measure is (comment count, updoots wtv)
But it affects my experience on the platform, even if I don’t care about it myself. When people make posts and comments for the karma and not because they think their input is useful then the platform will suck.
Hard agree, I’m here for information, not to see how much karma a user has, plus I feel karma systems encourage bots. If a karma system is introduced, I will leave for a platform that doesn’t have that kind of karma thing
I think kbin has a form of karma. If they do implement it it would be on a per-instance basis. Meaning it probably won’t matter for appealing to the greater fediverse.
Hard no
To anyone suggesting karma is a good anti bot tool, remember there is karma whoring. Nothing is stopping a bot from spamming useless things, and interacting with other bot posts to build karma. This is already happening on reddit when you navigate to weird subs where all the content is coming from one account posting links to the same shitty tabloid site. Yet this content is getting upvotes from something.
Karma is security theater, I think the mods were the true anti-bot force.
not to play devil’s advocate here, but for the average interwebs John Q. Public user isn’t a karma “fence” that has to at least be climbed, better than nothing at all? but yeah of course its a false sense of security.
What was the point of karma? I never understood the value in having it.
It started as an incentive for positive interaction.
It turned into something to be gamed by doing the worst sort of intraction (reposting).
I think it showed whether or not you posted quality content/comments? not really sure
But it also led to lazy or downright fraudulent reposts from users and bots alike.
My most popular post was a terrible Skyrim meme and my top comment was… Another meme. I guess that was good enough :D
I like that it doesn’t have karma. reddit has been deteriorating since 2016 2017. karma farming bots have increased in size so much. quality had dropped too much. I have been discussing about this with many friends since long and was trying to find alternative. I love that this decision has given enough momentum to federated spaces. now we will have some quality content and discussion without platform owner’s vested interests
This is something I had neglected to think of. A reward/points system leads to bots farming for points, then selling the account. On the other hand, karma can be a good indicator to community moderators of weather that user isn’t just a spam account.
Edit: To clarify comment karma is a good metric for mods, not post karma. Its much harder to gain karma via comments because you can’t just repost r/oddlysatisfying shit, but that could change with GPT and open source LLMs.
What if there was shadow karma, that you can only see if you are a mod, and the user cannot?
That actually seems like a good idea! Account farms won’t be able to abuse the system anymore.
Spam/bot accounts easily gained more karma than average users. User history has always been the best identifier that an account is genuine.
Comment karma is harder to gain than post karma, which is why many Reddit mods (including me) use it as a metric instead of combined karma. That is what I intended to say. Sorry about the confusion.
I say stay strong and refuse. I can’t see a single benefit outweighing the disadvantages and in particular botting to game that flawed system.
