• sky@codesink.io
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    209
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 年前

    Apple: only implements a proprietary graphics API

    Also Apple: Why does no one make games for my platform??

    • mingistech@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      44
      ·
      1 年前

      Luckily it plays on Apple Silicon Macs beautifully through CrossOver. In the MacGaming sub users are getting 100+fps.

      • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        It does, but Valve doesn’t spend money in taking any responsibility over it. Also I presume anticheat might not work properly.

        In any scenario, the translation layer has a performance impact which for any competitive player is something that makes Apple a no-go.

          • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 年前

            Because, again, they don’t want bad press when the translation layer doesn’t play ball with anticheat, or some other tech.

        • mingistech@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 年前

          That’s funny because my son compared CS2 on my MacBook Pro vs his RTX 3060 PC build we put together last winter and he said how much more responsive the game felt on the Mac.

          • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 年前

            That it works is one thing. That it always works as expected is another. Apple doesn’t want to take responsibility for that, and neither does Valve, when there’s not enough paying customers on that platform. It is what it is. Now the Proton layer is one thing, because Valve is selling Steam Decks. They will want that to become a big thing. They’ll go back to selling Steam Boxes (the living room console thing).

            If Apple wants to ride that wave, they could.

            • mingistech@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 年前

              Yes, CodeWeavers takes responsibility, Crossover is their product. Same company that originally created Proton for Valve. Solid product.

                • Aatube@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 年前

                  CS:GO had anticheat and was on Mac for ages. Granted they updated it to Live, but the underlying principles of design are still the same.

                • mingistech@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 年前

                  No you’re wrong. MP works just fine in CS2.

                  No need to have a meltdown because Mac users are enjoying the game too. lol.

                • mingistech@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 年前

                  We were discussing who supports the product. But interestingly CodeWeavers is responsible for over two-thirds of all commits to Wine, and the company also employs Wine’s primary maintainer, Alexandre Julliard, as its CTO.

      • sky@codesink.io
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        They ship an outdated and unreliable implementation 😅 There are things that use it, but my understanding is you couldn’t use it in the same way you can on other platforms.

        • henfredemars@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 年前

          Is it not still maintained and the simplest graphics API available of the big three?

          I learned that OpenGL is no longer maintained on Mac. I understand it’s on a might work but no guarantee status and no help if it breaks.

    • DefinitelyNotAPhone [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 年前

      Steve Jobs quite openly hated the idea of anyone gaming on a Mac because he felt like it made their products seem more childish or something. It seems like either nobody at Apple has managed to dig that particular brainworm out yet or have just decided that printing iPhone money makes all other concerns irrelevant.

  • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    85
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 年前

    So…how long before Apple realizes that game devs are notoriously time-crunched and forcing them to target yet another proprietary graphics API is a stupid move for their gaming ambitions?

    • ampersandrew@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      50
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 年前

      I’m not convinced they’ll ever realize the problem with their strategy. They’ll keep half-assing it every couple of years and wondering why they don’t have a larger gaming audience.

      • Dr. Bluefall@toast.ooo
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        67
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        It’s because they’re addicted to their walled gardens. Everything within Apple’s ecosystem must be tightly overseen and controlled, with little exception.

      • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 年前

        Yeah, they keep trying to bring their walled-garden approach to gaming and it just won’t work. It’s like trying to build another console in the current gaming market and unrealistically expecting it to take off.

        It’s also why I think the Vision Pro, despite how cool and innovative the tech might be, is also DOA.

  • i_cant_sports@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    35
    ·
    1 年前

    Was CS:GO available natively on Mac? If so, this is unfortunate news for the small subset of Mac users who played, since CS:GO is now no more.

    • dlok@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 年前

      Can you explain this joke, seen it more than once guessing she was used in apple marketing?

      • KickAssDuke@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        18
        ·
        1 年前

        Whoopie got mad and called out Blizzard for not releasing Diablo 4 on Mac. I think it was on tiktok.

        "This is what I’m asking you, Blizzard Entertainment,” Goldberg said, “This is Whoopi. You know how much I love Diablo. I would like y’all to let those of us who use our [Macs] to play. Allow us to play on the Apple. Take Diablo IV and let us do it and have a great time.”

        https://kotaku.com/diablo-4-iv-for-mac-whoopi-goldberg-upset-blizzard-port-1850519443

        • Zahille7@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          1 年前

          This is hilarious to me for some reason. Like, goddamn Whoopi Goldberg loves Diablo so much (and on a Mac no less) that she went and called them out on a public tiktok?

          That’s awesome.

  • naught@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    36
    arrow-down
    16
    ·
    1 年前

    Honestly? Kinda hate cs2. It runs worse (3080ti btw), most of my smoke grenades no longer work, they removed team deathmatch, they removed short competitive matches, and you can no longer play csgo. The more I play the less I’m a fan

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      ·
      1 年前

      I get the feeling it was pushed out before everything was ready. I am willing to bet that all these missing features are coming later. Not sure why they didn’t just wait before pushing out the game. The smokes are just different, players just need to adapt to new mechanics instead of using the same grenade tactics that they’ve memorized for years.

      • naught@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 年前

        Yeah they haven’t confirmed whether these features are making it back I believe, but they really ought to and I expect they will too. Smokes Im fine with. Mostly just annoying since the game feels almost identical to GO. A lot of smokes still work too so it’s kinda trial and error to find which ones work now and dont.

        I also find it annoying I can no longer see how much I damaged an enemy via console, but that’s fair enough too.

        • Freeman@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 年前

          The fact that CS2 feels, looks and plays the same as GO did was the biggest aim by valve and wish from players. This was the goal: Redo the game in a new engine. Thats what they did. We can argue if there are inportant features missing or not, but the same feel but reworked smokes is both a feature which most of dedicated players wished for

          • naught@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 年前

            I am in that camp, honestly! I just miss my old features and there are some quirks and growing pains. I really miss most of all short competitive. It was much lower stress and commitment. I can only play so many games and to be stuck in a one-sided long one feels bad. I am just a bit underwhelmed overall, but perhaps it is my expectations.

          • kratoz29@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 年前

            Huh, I thought this was an entirely different game… is this a similar scenario of what happened with the Warcraft III remake?

            • poke@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              1 年前

              It’s on a new engine and is technically a new game but Valve overwrote cs:go to make the inventory changeover work afaik. Lots of people seem to not know about the beta option to play GO, I think Valve should make a better process to access it so more people know that it’s an option.

        • Dandroid@dandroid.app
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 年前

          Well now that I think about it, I never played CS GO on this laptop, so I have nothing to compare against.

          • naught@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 年前

            I would say it runs “fine”. Just far worse than such a visually unimpressive game should (I don’t play cs for graphics anyway). The whole release feels like a dud. Feels like they pulled an Overwatch 2:

            Replace the old game, remove a ton of stuff people liked (at least I liked). I’ll still play - it’s not terrible - but it feels lacking

        • adaveinthelife@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 年前

          3080ti here at 3440x1440 and I don’t think I’ve ever dipped below 150 FPS, and whenever I look it’s in the mid 200’s

    • PixxlMan@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 年前

      I think much missing stuff is going to be coming. I think they just didn’t want to delay CS2 any longer. CSGO is still playable from the properties panel. You can enable a legacy CSGO mode. Not sure about matchmaking though.

      On my 3060ti with max everything I always have over 200 fps, but yes, definitely not as fast as CSGO still. What fps are you getting?

      • naught@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 年前

        It seems odd not to have TDM from the outset. I somehow doubt turning off team damage or shortening the match length requires a huge dev lift. Maybe some surrounding infrastructure but still. On the FPS, I’ll have to check! It feels like a lot lower than 200. I only have 144hz anyway so it must be worse than that

  • Gianni R@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    1 年前

    I think everyone would rather development effort for games go into Linux as opposed to macOS.

  • teraflopsweat@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 年前

    As a Mac user, I’m fine with this tbh. I don’t game on my Mac and most people I know with one don’t either.

  • bentropy@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 年前

    Wow you guys hate apple more than I do and I really think they’re overpriced but okay hard and software for people with other needs. The apple users I know don’t really think about gaming at all, wondering how many seriously do.

    • Cornelius@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 年前

      The hatred has nothing to do with the products but the lack of participation in open standards like OpenGL or Vulkan.

      Their products are incredibly well made (though I’d fuckin hope so given the pricing) and their software experience (barring the lack of good graphics API support) is quite nice.

    • Kata1yst@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      62
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 年前

      You mean repackaged Wine that they’re pretending to have invented? Yeah should do.

      • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        Really just repackaged Proton, with some ridiculous install requirements including fucking Homebrew.

        It’s not even Alpha level software right now. But, just to argue their side: it is meant as a preview for game developers to package their games with right now, and not the general public.

        Still… Fucking Homebrew.

        • smoothbrain coldtakes@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          1 年前

          Okay but it’s like, what other package managers exist on MacOS?

          Obviously they’re going to include Homebrew to fulfill dependencies in a more curated way than just bringing them down with the installer itself.

          • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 年前

            I guess I don’t really like the idea of a large company using a tool like Homebrew, I feel at that point they should write/include their own package manager.

            I might be sounding pedantic, so feel free to ignore me if you’re a Homebrew fan, but it just irks me that the package manager is installed via curl’ing a shell script from their github project, and that the entire repo itself is stored on Github.

            Even Microsoft has winget; dunno why a company the size of Apple can’t just roll a proper, secure way to distribute packages.

            Also, as far as other package managers go, there’s Macports.

              • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 年前

                Sure, exactly. So why do I need to install a third party CLI package manager for a first party suite of tools?

                Like, xcode-select is able to grab dependencies. There’s no reason why a similar binary can’t be delivered with the porting sdk.

          • Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 年前

            There’s MacPorts but Homebrew is by far the most common package manager on MacOS. I wouldn’t use Homebrew on Linux personally but it’s great on Mac

      • Dym Sohin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        just install windows-version of steam, and a windows-version of CS:2, same way wine on linux works for blizzard launcher

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 年前

      It’s meant more to help developers with their porting efforts though, not really meant for normal users like Valve’s doing with Proton.

  • ulkesh@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 年前

    And there’s nothing wrong with this. While I’d love to see companies develop games that run on all of the main three OSes, there is cost involved. And Valve determined that cost to be too high to worry with. This doesn’t mean Macs suck, it just means Macs are not a viable gaming platform for some companies and some games.

    Imagine if we saw reason instead of simply adding ourselves to the “Macs suck” bandwagon. What a world that would be – with logic and reason and understanding. Nah, just pissing on things is better.

    • Cornelius@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      1 年前

      Wine is available for Mac, and Apple has started work on their game toolkit which was shown to run cyberpunk (albeit not well)

      So yeah, but you’re probably better off just dual booting asahi tbh.

      • loganthered@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 年前

        Does Asahi have full support for the GPU yet? Would Proton work on a non-x86-x64 architecture? Last time I tried it (around 6 months back, been a minute) it worked great for anything that didn’t need acceleration but I didn’t think it could handle much more.

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 年前

      Let’s be real. You don’t HAVE to buy the loot boxes lmao. It’s not like they make you any better as a player.

      • Voyajer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 年前

        CS skins are practically pay to lose thinking about it. They make you stand out against the map more.

        • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 年前

          …so is gaming in general. What’s your point?

          My point is that they’re just cosmetic, unlike gacha games or other free to play games where you’re FORCED to buy loot boxes to unlock good weapons and items.

          A casino REQUIRES you to spend money in order to participate. CS2 does not. Big difference.

            • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 年前

              That’s how it works on most games

              Not really. A bunch of F2P games have lootboxes that give you a chance at better weapons / characters early on instead of going through a long grind. The set of CS weapons is the same and does not change.

              The community gets upset when it becomes pay-to-win. I wouldn’t consider CS to be pay-to-win though so I find the casino comparison a bit inaccurate.

                • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 年前

                  But I never argued it was

                  You’re the one who brought up the idea that the game is a casino. A casino is pay-to-win, because you literally have to pay money to participate and having more money gives you advantages.

                  This is not what CS is. You don’t have to pay money to participate and there are no upgrades weapons or characters as a result of paying more money.

          • ampersandrew@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 年前

            I haven’t checked in on Counter-Strike in a long time, but we can and should call out shitty business practices designed to exploit gambling addiction to make you play when you don’t want to. I’m not equipped to assess whether CS is designed that way, but gaming in general is not predatory and addicting in this way.

            • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 年前

              assess whether CS is designed that way

              It isn’t. There’s no grind to get better weapons so that you can remain competitive with other players and no paid lootboxes that give you an early advantage. You start out with the standard set of weapons just like any other player and that never changes. The only addicting thing about the boxes in CS2 is that they look cool but I’d say that that’s more on the player to decide whether they want it or not.

              It’s like saying providing the ability to paint your car is an addicting business practice, which I don’t really buy. This is not the same as pay-to-win and the distinction should be made here.

              • ampersandrew@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 年前

                You get no advantage from the battle passes in Street Fighter 6 either, but they’re still designed in such a way to keep you chasing the rewards. It can be scummy without being pay to win. But again, I don’t know what hooks CS2 has. Last I played CS:GO was when it was $15 and had no microtransactions.

                • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 年前

                  But because they have no impact on the gameplay, the onus is entirely on the player whether they want it or not. At this point you’re basically saying that they made the battlepasses and lootboxes interesting and therefore they’re bad

    • aluminium@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 年前

      Same is true for many other games that get shit for their Microtransactions. But Valve is on the “good guy” site, so rules don’t apply the same.

  • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    1 年前

    Will there be any new Macs really? Isnt everything just some iPhone/ipad with iOS soonish? I doubt macs have any relevance in the future - just like last time when there was no Steve Jobs around. I mean there arent really any apps even for their watch… So why bother? Maybe they can just usw some cloudgaming …Apple ppl love paying and subscriptions.

    • space_comrade [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 年前

      Not sure what you’re talking about, a whole lot of people use MacBooks, I don’t think their market share dropped significantly. Desktop Macs, sure maybe but I think even that won’t completely die out.

        • space_comrade [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 年前

          I’m not sure if that’ll happen any time soon, they’d lose out on the IT professionals, audio professionals etc.

          I got one just this year and it certainly doesn’t feel like an iPad at all.

          • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 年前

            You got a desktop or MacBook? Macbook pro is pretty nice but i dont see a future for osx or desktop. And while i agree some real professionals might keep using it for another decade but the vast majority of Adobe professionals will be replaced by other tech like AI or nuke artists etc

            • space_comrade [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 年前

              I got a MacBook Pro M2. It’s a good piece of hardware, MacOS was kinda annoying at first since it’s my first MacBook but I got the hang of it and it’s basically a normal desktop environment to me right now and I can’t see that changing significantly in the near future, I don’t think AI is gonna move that fast as to completely eliminate the need for typical PC desktop environments.

              • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 年前

                I stopped using it over ten years ago and dont look back at crap like quarkxpress or the finder. Only contact with osx i have now is old people with macbooks that have troubles with user permissions and Safari. Desktop PC can strive but i doubt mac desktop or osx will be part of that.

    • ulkesh@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 年前

      Millions of developers of numerous technologies use Macs. To say macs won’t have relevance in the future is clearly uninformed. As a gaming platform, sure, Macs leave plenty to be desired, but as development computers, they work extremely well, if overpriced.

      • Moonguide@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 年前

        They’re also the standard in some industries, inc. design and video production. At least where I’m at. Hate the OS with a passion but not having a mixed OS workplace sucks.

        • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 年前

          That is the past. I know Photoshop ppl are getting laid off everywhere and replaced by nuke,ai and so on.Does Apple even do new desktop Workstations? Is that coke can still a thing?

      • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 年前

        Maybe. But who needs it? I say nobody. The poor Photoshop and illu guys are already getting replaced. There is no need for osx so there is no need for desktop Macs and macbooks will run IOS and be nothing but a superpowerd ipad. Innovation with Apple is zero - they the money to do a new chip but nobody devs anymore for the iwatch since the idea how Apple wants to make business is pretty dated.

        Meta app on iwatch …lol. 90s are calling and they want Apple back in the grave i hear. Or maybe Bill Gates can help them AGAIN?