• sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    At least some of the plauges approximating some of what is described in the Torah were real things.

    Locusts were certainly a common problem.

    Sometimes, you would get an absurd amount of frogs birthing all at the same time from a particularly severe natural climate cycle … the entitety of the history of Egypt very much involves figuring out how to handle the Nile’s flooding seasons.

    A red algae bloom could possibly have turned the Nile red, and made it basically toxic.

    … But the part where the historicity falls apart is the supposed timing of the Exodus event, and the number of Hebrews involved.

    Long story short: Traditional religious dating of when Exodus occured basically puts it occuring before the time Yahweh even existed as a monotheistic God, in Israel/Judah/Canaan.

    At this point in time, the Levant was largely still a bunch of varying cults/clans based around the polytheistic Caananite pantheon.

    Yahweh did not develop into, or emerge, as the singular monotheistic God of peoples in the Levant… untill hundreds of years later, after they had been held captive in Babylon/Persia for many decades, where they absorbed much of thr dualistic framework of the Zoroastrian Ahura-Mazda as the great good God, vs Angra-Mainyu as the great evil God… and then were allowed to resettle in their homeland by Cyrus.

    Roughly what I just described is inline with the actual existing and properly dated texts and artefacts from the relevant regions.

    When Exodus is tradtionally supposed to have occured… Caananites were still worshipping El, Ba’al, Ashera, Astarte, Anat, Dagon.

    El and his son Ba’al more or less merged into Yahweh over time, and gained many attributes of other members of the Pantheon… this is why Yahweh is a jealous god who does not suffer any idol worship, worship of his progenitors.

    The other huge problem with the Exodus story is the numbers of Hebrews involved.

    The Torah is very explicit at a few points about how many men there were… and what you end up with is something like 2 to 3 million people leaving Egypt, spending 40 years lost in Sinai or possibly Arabia… all while leaving literally no archaeological evidence of such a huge movement of people.

    2 to 3 million people leaving Egypt is utterly absurd. Its comparable to the estimated entire popation of Lower (Northern) Egypt at the time of the traditional religious dating.

    There is nothing in any Egyptian records to indicate anything like that number of people up and leaving.

    What there is, is a good number of mentions that small numbers, as in hundreds, maybe thousands, of Caananites … well if Caanan was having a bad drought, or had just had some kind of city state conflict… Egypt would fairly routinely allow some refugees to basically graze their herds in Egypt, or even a few of them would settle into being farmers, or do trading caravans.

    There is no evidence whatsoever that millions of Hebrews, or people who would in the future become Hebrews… ever lived in Egypt as a slave class, and then all left at the same time.

    • otterpop@lemmy.world
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      22 hours ago

      Ashera and Astarte are the same, aren’t they? One is just the Greek? I’ve admittedly got a lot to learn about this period of history.

      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 hours ago

        Ah! It seems you are… broadly correct on that one!

        Though it gets complicated when you dive into the details… it appeara that exactly which name is being used by which language and people … involves essentially some … derogatory puns, slight manipulations of certain vowels/consonants to change the literal meaning of the name.

        https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/68544/is-asherah-related-to-ashtoreth#68545

        As to books, reading?

        I am doing my best (and must admit I am certainly oversimplifying to some extent, and may be making even more errors) … to put together the totality of what I’ve absorbed from watching a large number of videos either by or involving Drs. Josh Bowman and Kipp Davis.

        Dr. Bowman is digitalhammurabi on youtube, Dr. Kipp Davis is… I think just eponymous?

        Both of them together, or each of them singly have often appeared on the MythVision yt channel, Paulogia, more recently Esoterica… and all of those channels also feature many other scholars relevant to near eastern history, religion, language, etc.

        I am not sure if Drs. Bowman or Davis have books that outline exactly what I’ve tried to sum up, but I know they definitely do have scholarly publications and at least some books focused on other topics that end up describing different parts of my summary.

        I am not an expert, just a very interested person who follows the experts best I can.

      • otterpop@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        As a follow up, do you have any suggested reading material on the topic? You seem well versed.