Now I understand why at each windows 11 update, they introduce more bugs than ever
Satya Nadella has given an evasive answer there and both Zuckerberg and the journalists have been taken in.
It is common in programming languages that have a lot of boilerplate to use code generation, where you take some information about data and generate code automatically, like code that translates data between formats (for example reading and writing xml for saving to disk or json to send over the network). Being very routine to write and easy to deduce logically from other information, this process has been automated for years and years, long before AI existed.
Microsoft’s flagship software such as operating systems, office software, is unbelievably vast and complex, far beyond the complexity of most business software, and has been developed over decades. They absolutely have not replaced 30% of their code since the very recent advent of useful AI. I can believe that 30% of it is automatically generated, but not by AI.
Wonder how much of Windows 10 was written by Stack Exchange?
And its all Teams.
Does that mean that Microsoft shares are gonna crash?
Horseshit.
The current state of code generated by AI is sketchy at best. I often get plain wrong answers because the model tries to derive. It comes up with calls to functions and properties that just do not exist.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.
Apart from that, apps that are glued together from AI generated code are not maintainable at all. What if there is a bug somewhere and you so not comprehend what is actually happening? Ask AI to fix it? Yeah good luck with that.
I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.
I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.
This is my experience. It can be useful for simple things that used to be found with a web search before AI slop broke things. For example, I was having trouble getting a simple CGO program for a POC to communicate with the main Go process. This should have been solvable easily with documentation but the CGO docs are pretty bad and sample code was near impossible to find due to AI slop in the search results. GPT was able to provide the needed sample code to unblock me.
This ^
“20%-30% of code inside the company’s repositories”
Now, if they had said “20%-30% of code written in the past 6 months…” I might buy that.
The repositories are going to have all the current codebase, likely going back years now. AI generated code is barely viable at this point and really only pretty recently.
No way 1/3rd of all current codebase is AI.
Even 20% of new code would be a stretch unless they count every first iteration of code written by AI that needs to be replaced by a human later because it was plain wrong.
Maybe they’re counting the six iterations of code it gives me as I tell it what’s wrong with each one.
20% of code = 20 lines of production code.
They mean new code, as per the article. And they mean code gen and IntelliSence
“Please move all comments from in-line to the line above, and add a separator line”
They say that because they are selling it.
And yeah, my experience is the same. The most frustrating is when writing in a typed python, and it gives answers that are clearly incorrect, making up attributes that don’t even exist etc.
My brother said his superior asked him to use more AI auto complete so that they can brag to investors that X percent of the company’s code is written by AI. This told me everything about the current state of this bullshit.
I didn’t RTA, but if they mean ALL code at MS, that just can’t be true. They have legacy stuff going back decades, beyond just their windows platform. There’s no way 30% of all their code is replaced or newly created by AI.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers
The exact same wrong answer. Co-Pilot is especially bad for that. I’m practically giving up using it outside of vs code because the actual copilot AI is dog shit stupid m
“Auto complete generated 30% of characters”
Fixed it.
It would explain the constant barrage of system breaking bugs and RCE vulns
Turns out they have been using AI for decades.
“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.
To be fair, the AI’s not wrong. It’s probably better, but just a teeny tiny bit so.
Honestly, AI is like a genie - whatever you come up with he’ll just butcher and misinterpret so you start questioning both your own sanity and the semantics of language. Good thing these genies have no wish limit, but bad thing that they murder rainforests while generating their non-sequitur replies.
Ah but it was nice for a minute imagining microsoft vibe coding windows…
He used the words “written by software”. This is ambiguous and doesn’t mean AI, for example, using annotations for variables and generating the getters and setters would count. Right click and create function body for interface function definitions also.
They’re exaggerating to pretend their AI is more useful than it is.
Intellisense in visual studio has also been really good for over a decade. Which is technically also written by software and not me.
I mean, really good intellisense is a great improvement, but it’s not replacing devs any time soon.
People have been using annotations to generate code since I rode my dinosaur to work.
Don’t forget code generation for stuff like bindings or database schemes
So the CEO is trying to tell investors that they are saving money by not paying employees. But to me it sounds more like: we are letting our sub-par products continue to enshitify, and any other company using AI to program will be equal competition.
I think he’s trying to say that their AI writes code good enough for Microsoft. Which is a message to other business leaders that your company too can benefit from copilot, just hand over your credit card!
Microsoft has absolutely gotten worse in the consumer space, but that isn’t really their business these days.
They’re worse in the business space too. Teams is crashing on me daily.
Teams crashed on me today too! It’s great because it was a meeting with external people, so I had to sit in the waiting room in shame until one of them let me back in.
Good point
They are even worse in the business space for sure.
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Here’s the list of what they are enshittifying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_software
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Imagine simping for a trillion dollar company. Lol
Hmm seems like he do
You look like a very fun person to spend time with (/s)
It’s seems more that you don’t really know the definition.
Windows 11 was much much shittier, idk about the rest of their products, I haven’t used them.
And I switched over to steamOS, so I won’t be using any of their products again.
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Enshittification, also known as crapification and platform decay, is a pattern in which online products and services decline in quality over time. Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers, and finally degrade their services to users and business customers to maximize profits for shareholders.
Yes, we are in the third phase: service to user is free diving in order to increase money to M$ shareholders?
Man, chill. Break the word down.
En - Into / Become Shit - Da poo poo Fication - The process of becoming
Have you not noticed that the Windows search has become a meme for being really useful in windows seven and useless in newer versions because it started
- Searching the web and asking an ai for answers without you wanting that
- In consequence syphoning out each and every search promt
- Displaying fucking ads in the fucking search results
And that’s just one example that’s obvious enough to become a meme
BTW: any form of making a Microsoft product worse for profit of Microsoft is enshittification since they have both endusers and sellers of products that only work on windows/in the Microsoft ecosystem locked in with significant costs tied to leaving.
What products do they have that aren’t?
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You said this a lot, but you seem more like you took offence than like you’re moving on.
It comes across as you dismissing people’s points because they didn’t debate by the rules you invented for them to speak.
It’s not a computer science word, it’s an IT word, and I’m afraid you’re going to have to live with people being a bit imprecise with it.
Why not link to the article coining the term? It’s well written and explains well.
I’ve read the article. Search, Notepad, Teams, Excel.
Outlook is stable
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Excel
They started preloading it on windows start due to bloatware and corporate management bullcrap. There was an article about on lemmy a few days ago.
That’s… not something to be proud of.
Power move by the zucc by first asking how much genai is used at Microsoft then refusing to answer his own question at Facebook 😂
Well, that explains Windows 11.
I bet they’re counting code written while someone had an AI plugin installed as “written by AI” and I bet that accounts for almost all of that 30%. On top of that, I’m betting that they made it mandatory to have such a plug in, and the other 70% is just code written before they mandated this.
I would be very surprised if 30% of their code lines had even been touched at all by anyone since AI coding assistants became a thing.
I wish this shot from The Terminator had the camera showing Sarah Conner’s face instead of Reese’s, because it’d be such an appropriate meme image on multiple levels for when someone makes a misleading claim about some current AI system.
I could see stuff getting small changes and them claiming that the entirety of the new version is “written by AI”.
Also, having 1/3 lines with obvious code that can be auto suggested correctly would make sense, but that is hardly code “written by ai” in the way they suggest.
I’d guess a lot of the people writing the code don’t even have it turned on, it’s just installed because management said it had to be, because management wants to be able to tell investors they’re “innovating work flows”.
I am a small sample to confirm that’s exactly the reason in my brother’s company.
And in my company we’re pressured to make X prompts every week to the company’s own ChatGPT wrapper to show we’re being productive. Even our profit shares have a KPO attached to that now. So many people just type “Hello there” every morning to count as another interaction with the AI.
Every few months I turn it on for a few days just to see if it is better.
Then I go back to the old AST based autocomplete that actually knows something useful about my code.
Those are the easy time savings though, the safe easy stuff the developer doesn’t have to worry about anymore. (Giving them time do the gnarly stuff)
It is exactly the opposite, with simple, predictable auto-complete you didn’t have to worry about that anymore, with LLMs you always have to look at it in detail because every little thing could be just plain completely different and wrong.
I can read way faster than I can type though. You still check it, but it’s pretty good as that kind of stuff once you have an example for it to follow.
Reading code is usually orders of magnitude slower than writing code. Sure, typing might be slower than reading but to check if it is what you intended you have to understand it too.
Well, I’m generally very anti-LLM but as a library author in Java it has been very helpful to create lots of similar overloads/methods for different types and filling in the corresponding documentation comments. I’ve already done all the thinking and I just need to check that the overload makes the right call or does the same thing that the other ones do – in that particular case, it’s faster. But if I myself don’t know yet how I’m going to do something, I would never trust an AI to tell me.
Well, okay, I can see how it would be useful in languages like Java that are extremely verbose and have a low expressiveness. Writing Java pretty much was already IDEs with code generation 20 years or so ago because nobody wants to write so much boilerplate by hand.
this makes way more sense than hundreds of shitty devs.
Even their AI crashes all the time, its brutal.
this is why I get so much business as a IT consultant lol
Everybody saying this is why their products are shit are really confusing me. It’s not like Microsoft just started being terrible. They’ve been terrible for a real long time. Way before AI was a thing. This is just a symptom of Microsoft’s awfulness not a reason for it.
Ok, it’s like this.
Ms used to release shitty stuff. And they’ll continue to release shitty stuff except now it’ll be 30% more shitty.There were alpha versions of windows 8 with less glaring/annoying bugs than windows 11, though
My windows 11 gaming machine has done all manner of fucky stuff, including permanently losing desktop icons seemingly at random and just whole ass refusing to open the file explorer for six months.
You can install Dolphin file manager on Windows. File Explorer has sucked at least since Windows 11 was released.
I’m just saying, it’s the most basic program there is for a user-friendly OS, how do you launch to market with a fucked up file explorer? And nah, we’re going to Linux once they start pushing windows 12.
Why wait?
Mostly because when I switched my personal machine, there were a few small, weird issues with everything from not being able to do multiplayer on indie games to the grass, and only the grass as opposed to everything green, being blue in Baldur’s Gate 3. Working through those problems didn’t bother me, I’ve got the gumption and patience for it, the rest of my family does not. I’m giving the game industry a bit more time to smooth things out before I move the family gaming machine over.
I’m waiting to make a pc upgrade and buy new storage, then I’m switching.
Windows 11 is so terrible so far that if I’ll need to use Windows 10 for dev reasons, I’ll either pirate the extended support patches, or use a shitbox (obsolete PC for optimization purposes) disconnected from the internet. I do fear that I might have to hack a GUI onto LDB or GDB, because I got too used to RemedyBG (I’m already using Kate).
The AI is not the reason their software is bad, but their software is bad for the same reason they’re claiming to use AI to write it.
This is my own experience but the past few years Windows has been extremely dependable for me and then in the last few months the updates they’ve have been terrible. I’ve seen more blue screens recently than I have in a lot of years.
All this to say that if it is 30% AI code being used then it’s very telling!
Windows was always garbage to be honest, windows 7 was the best release in my opinion. You are correct though it is way worse these past months. By the way does your mouse lag when the update notification comes up?
i had such a bad experience with 7, it was horribly unstable on a computer that had handled vista just fine. i switched to 8 as soon as i could and was better off for it.
Windows 7 was peak windows. Its been downhill from there
Win98SE was my favorite. Maximum just working, minimum trying to “help.”
It’s great if you don’t need it to be on the network. I’d say they didn’t have networking figured out until almost the end of XPs lifespan.
I don’t remember in my 2 decades of working my work machine causing me to lose work due to a Windows update. In the last year, it happened to me 3 times. One was due to Crowdstrike. The latest update also recently broke my remote setup. Not completely their fault but still a crappy time. The one other time was due to an update (must’ve been the forced win11 one) killing the wifi and then Windows hiding any options to fix it, a bug from Windows 10.
It shows
Beat me to it.
That explains so much
