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I have zero desire to own an Internet-connected car wherein I can’t “own” it without abiding by the rules set forth by the auto manufacturer. BMW recently killed their subscription seat heaters but who knows what Egon Smells is cooking up at Tesla.
In my defense, my 13 year old car died earlier this year and I needed a new car fast. I was completely unaware these systems had gotten as bad as they have until after I bought it.
I figured we’re not going to have much choice in the future. We’ll be driving cars under End User License Agreements that already send tons and tons of data about us back to the manufacturers.
As much as I love technology, I hate the way it is being used. Car companies don’t make enough money selling cars so they need to collect and sell driver data? It’s dystopian.
They make plenty of money, they just want more money
Capitalism requires obtaining more capital than ever every quarter or you’ve failed as a company. They’re getting to the point they have to violate the customers privacy in order to chaise ever growing profits
Capitalism only works in a growing company in a growing market. Once you’re reached a plateau it maxes out your client base you can’t go any higher other than artificially.
It seems to still be working for the mega corps now stealing and selling our private info, no one is stopping them and they’re taking in extra millions from it. Their original business may plateau at a certain point but then they branch out to more business models/types by using the money bucket from the original successful business
What’s funny is that that only really applies to publicly owned companies where anyone can own shares of the company.
But thats rhe name of the game, enough is never enough.
In US, maybe. But in EU things are already regulated enough that this can be avoided to a degree. It’s not there yet, but EC doesn’t like shit like this. We already have GDPR and forced separate warranties for hardware and software, ensuring you can fuck around with the latter without voiding warranty on the former. But at some point I fully expect some manufacturer to give you a kill switch from GSM modem and call it a feature, then everyone else will follow.
Don’t you love it when it makes you read a disclaimer and click “accept” literally every time you get into the car if you want to use your infotainment center? Who’s the asshole who came up with that brilliant idea? Whoever he is, fuck him!
I suspect that’s a hedge against getting sued for one reason or another. The disclaimer always seems to be designed to absolve the manufacturer if you, e.g., follow the GPS until you drive into a lake.
But! The one on my boss’ Tacoma he just bought dismisses itself after the vehicle has been in motion about 5 seconds, though. I think that rather defeats the purpose. (What it dismisses to in this case is a nag screen begging you to subscribe to the navigation “service,” which he has not done. That sort of thing really makes me want to see about where to buy a cruise missile.)
Ah the good ol minivan motor Tacomas. They don’t make ‘em like they used to
My Subaru and every other car I’ve been in the disclaimer goes away if you don’t click it. I have clicked accept in two years.
Our Honda puts up a notice that essentially says “I understand that I need to keep my eyes on the road”. Yeah, no shit, Honda. But what’s dumb is that it won’t go away until you tap accept, so it ends up causing you to have to take your eyes off the road and pay attention to this stupid disclaimer screen if you forget to close it before you start driving.
It depends on the manufacturer. My Hyundai infotainment system is great. The only problem I have is that it likes to randomly connect my wife’s phone instead of mine about 5% of the time.
Hey friend, you are not the one who needs a defense, IMO-- You’re just the end user caught up in the nonsense. Enjoy your new car as best you can, and just make decisions that make the most sense for you.
There are electric cars built by corporate oligarchs that are not Nazis. More disconcerting you missed that memo.
Unfortunately, in the US at least, there’s very little choice. If we’re only counting new electric cars(not SUVs) in the low end, there’s basically only Tesla, Chevrolet, Nissan, and Hyundai. Some of the least reliable manufacturers with frequent recalls. And Tesla 3 has the most range and tech out of those for a similar price.
When you get to the $50k+ range, then you have a lot more options with all the high end luxury brands like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc., offering EVs.
Sure. I’m upvoting you for accuracy, but anyone buying Musk’s products at this point is knowingly investing in and supporting his ideologies.
Yep, that’s why I went with a non-electric car when I was car shopping earlier this year. I have a 220 mile drive I have to do a few times a month because of my work and Tesla is the only EV which has an epa estimated range that can comfortably deal with that. All the other low end EVs were just so much worse, especially for highway driving, and I refused to condone Musk’s antisemitism.
But I can see people wanting a low end EV with long distance capabilities and having no other choice. It’s either the climate or all of Musk’s shit. Not a clear answer between the two. I decided I was already doing my part and being better for the environment than the avg person by avoiding meat.
I really appreciate a lot about the way you roll, IRL and here.
Thanks
Polestar? Though their next model (3) is going to be an SUV.
I went to their website, it says a new polestar 2 starts at $50k and polestar 3 at $85k. Those are the only models listed on their website. That doesn’t count as low end for me.
Egon Smells
I dislike the guy as much as everyone else but i really wish this stupidist name bullshit would die.
Shit like that annoys me as much as “tRump”.
I despise him, hope to never see him near DC again, and will be happy to see him found guilty. But when you say things like that it just makes you look stupid.
“tRump” is just lazy.
It’s not lazy… It’s extra effort to intentionally show one’s disrespect for these despicable motherfuckers.
I respect your opinion and can see where you are coming from.
However, fuck him.
stupidist name
Oh yeah? Felon musk!
elon smuck!
Noel Kums!
You sound like fun.
Thanks LameDickoholic!
Bam gotcha, hahahhaha.
who knows what Egon Smells is cooking up
Subscription for brakes is on the table
I once had a car salesman try to talk me out of ABS because the one on the lot didn’t have it. He literally told me “ABS? You only need that in an emergency!”
I replied with “I only need headlights at night and seatbelts in an accident but I want those, too.”
I can totally see them charging extra monthly charges or even a charge every time you activate the ABS.
It’s all A BS ;)
Clippy says, “It appears as if you are trying to stop! Do you want help?”
Why would anyone buy a Tesla? Fuck that
I have a Tesla. It’s great. I’ve received dozens of new features OTA. There are no subscriptions (except a very reasonable $10 for additional cellular connectivity, that I do not pay for). It’s the best car I’ve ever owned.
Also Fuck Elon 👍
I own a Tesla, I can’t imagine buying any other make now. The full experience is incredible. Every time I hear what’s going on with the new cars, especially EV, my answer to all the issues is always the same: get a Tesla instead.
Also: Musk is a shitshow on legs
Yeah, I mean there are totally legitimate reasons to not like them and not buy one but they’re very hard to beat on fun, reliability, practicality and cost-effectiveness.
I can’t imagine it’s a Tesla or it wouldn’t say anything about keeping the engine running.
Either way, fuck all this bullshit. Every day I grow less and less likely to part with my old beast BUT the near doubled and still rising price of fuel will probably force my hand eventually.
I just went on a touring holiday and fuel was easily the largest component of my budget.
Come to Norway, and you’ll see that overy other car is a Tesla. It’s like a status symbol.
It being a status symbol becomes kind of irelevant if every other person has it
I suppose it could be like antique cars in my home state where just about everyone has a antique car and is still a status symbol but at least with a car that you have to constantly work on it yourself it’s kinda a hey look at what I’ve made sort of status symbol maybe Norwegians are hot rodding Teslas?
I feel like hot rodding a tesla would be more of a Finnish thing. Also I feel like if theres any car that I wouldnt hot rod itd be a tesla, npt cause its nice mind you, (I think every “feature” it has is shit) but because I feel like itd throw a hissy fit unless you legitimized it and hotwired all its systems.
Because they’re phenomenal vehicles? And if you live in the US they have the only charging network you can actually rely on.
I’m driving 600 miles today in mine. No problem.
Unfortunately most modern cars are built this way.
After extensive 6-months search of new car, I concluded that you have to compromise.
I went with Nissan pathfinder and the software isn’t mature yet. Engine runs rough with misfires when idle. The car assembled with misaligned parts.
Nissan knows and wouldn’t fix the issue.
He is possible today to buy an electric car that is not connected to internet?
I will have am to buy a new car soon and unfortunately I don’t see too many options.
Yeah I hope Infiniti never updates their tech. They added it right before internet connectivity was easy, so it’s still mostly unconnected but it still has the luxuries like phone connectivity.
I’m going to cry if they get the new Nissan stack
While I like driving. I hate all the shit modern car manufacturers put in modern cars. Sure they’re more efficient on fuel than older ones. But we should be able to have that without needing the car to be tracked and data collected, we have in the past.
I feel like all these driver aids are also making people worse at driving. They need to do less, so they pay attention less.
On top of that, can we ban touchscreens in cars? Physical buttons give physical feed back, you can feel for the button you want and press it without taking your eyes off the road. A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away. It’s somewhat mitigated when they put buttons on the steering wheel, but not all buttons can fit in that spot.
Sure some cars have google assistant, Siri or Alexa. But I actually get so frustrated when trying to tell my phone to navigate somewhere or just simply change the song. And that’s just the phone! The amount of times I have to pull over because it glitches out, or just fails to interpret some or all of what I’ve just said (sure it’s better than voice assistants used to be, but it still breaks regularly) is still too high. The amount of times I regularly tell it to do something, only to find it was still processing the activation voice command, and therefore was initialising the VA screen, and not listening to a word I said after the initial activation is infuriating.
I love technology, but the technology has no place in cars if it detracts or distracts from the act and safety of actually driving the car.
/Rant.
Sometimes the updates aren’t even worth it.
Toyota said my prius needed an update so I installed the app for it. All the update did was remove fucking features that were usable in the car. Used to have the option to use Pandora from the console but it got removed randomly by an update.
Then they installed an Alexa search page that glitches my console if I every select it.
Basically I’m saying FUCK TOYOTA
For bonus anger.
Amazon pays Toyota about $1 per vehicle that Alexa is installed on.
So you made Toyota an extra dollar for your pain.
My 2015 Subaru Impreza has a shitty entertainment system. At least it still connects via BT, but they removed the screen mirroring really early on and the app had ~1 star on Google Play for a long time (probably still does). Thankfully it’s not integrated with the features of the car in any meaningful way. I could swap it for any other head unit. No sure how that will work with modern cars where the AC, lane departure, and everything else goes to the stereo.
The real issue, as you point out, is there is nothing to force them to continue supporting it or maintain its features once us poor suckers have bought it.
If it’s anything like my MIL’s 17’ Forester, you flat can’t replace the headunit without disabling a lot of car features. I believe the land departure/EyeSight still works, though.
Thinking for a second it wasn’t a typo, a land departure feature would be excellent, either flying or amphibious mode.
I’m trying to manifest flying cars into being, apparently.
Sounds like getting the 2016 model of Prius was a good call on my part. Of course, it was 2019 when I did it and that model wasn’t substantially different, but that sounds awful.
Yeah 2017 model here :/
Entune is the worst Toyota dashboard ever. It’ll randomly crash and reload the dashboard while driving sometimes. (once or twice every 3 months)
I haven’t had that problem, but it does do this weird thing where it sometimes messes up pairing with the bluetooth on my phone and plays everything super fast.
Factory reset help?
Granted not a software update but my dad’s Cadillac got recalled once and all they did was make the ceiling buttons harder to read that was the one time he ever obayed a recall
ceiling buttons harder to read
How?! And also, why?! I don’t get it. What was the point of doing this?
How they made the buttons so recessed that you need to move your head directly under them to see what button is what. Why it’s a Cadillac ATS this car is the physical incarnation of mildly infuriating and I have no idea why my dad loves it so much when both me and my mom find everything about that car mildly infuriating I guess they just found another way to make the car mildly infuriating
I really REALLY hope someone at some point starts a gasoline to electric car conversion company at some point.
I love my car because it has just the right amount of technology: Bluetooth connectivity for calls and music. That’s it. That’s all I need.
Yup. Unfortunately, since most people seem to prefer the dystopian futuretech, all auto manufacturers are going to employ it. Just like with cell phones. The last phone I know of with 16:9 aspect ratio and no blighted hole punch or notch was in 2018. There’s a market full of us luddites who prefer the old ways, but we’re invisible to manufacturers because it’s more profitable to make something that more people want to buy, and we’re forced to buy that garbage as well anyway.
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I hope so
It’s already started rich rebuild v8 swap a module s and is currently diseal swapping a module 3
You forgot about the programmed obsolescence.
Yeah, it goes further than just designing the hardware to only last a few years, all of these electronics ensure that the car is fucked as soon as the necessary online services go down. Meanwhile a well-maintained '93 Geo Metro, driven in the south where they don’t salt the roads every year, can last decades.
I’ve had my 2010 Mazda 3 for 13 years now and I’m taking every precaution to keep it as long as I can.
hi, I’m looking to buy my first car and have my eyes on the 2015 Mazda 3 but it is a little bit over my budget. Would you recommend getting the 2010-2013 Mazda 3 in 2023? Or just downgrade to a 2015 Mazda 2?
The 2010-2013 ones have a few problems because they’re the first of a new series. And it was when the company was breaking off with Ford and still had crap American parts.
There was a 2012 update where they added the skyactiv engine and made a few improvements to the body and a new facelift. I recommend you get that one. It has better gas consumption and has better handling while maintaining the same interior. Although I think the interior dash lighting is blue instead of red.
You can see what I mean in the Wikipedia page here.
There are some positives and negatives to the desire for old form factors. Secondhand phones from 2018 cost much less than new ones but lack some of the new features like… I can’t think of any.
New features, like the absolute gutting of Tasker’s capabilities
5g and nfc was rarer then.
I believe you on 5g, but hasn’t nfc become rarer rather than more common over time? Has there been a resurgence of nfc in recent years??
All contactless payments use it. All your cards have it. All phones that you. Can pay from (which I don’t know any new brand that doesn’t offer this feature) uses it.
I guess that covid was the resurgence, with all the banks and businesses setting up nfc cards and payment machines for zero touch payments.
forced to buy
the real mildlyinfuriating is always in the comments
There was some discussion on a post about gas to electric cars https://lemmy.world/post/5901284
There are likely a lot of complexities here.
Battery tech will need to improve greatly and be minimalized. EV batteries are currently massive, heavy, and generally engineered as long, wide, flat modules to be installed beneath the floor so they keep the center of gravity low and the vehicle balanced. That’s not really possible in an ICE vehicle with all the frame molding around existing exhaust and drivetrain components, and you most likely can’t just have some sort of modular battery and motor unit that you just drop into the engine bay, as that would put a ton (literally) of additional weight on one end and mess with the balance.
The draintrain components may need to be replaced or the motor outputs modulated to prevent the torque from ripping it apart.
Power steering and brakes will need to converted to electric assist. AC and heat would need to converted to electric.
Older cars (early 00’s and older) with cable throttles will need to be retrofitted with drive-by-wire, or use some sort of adapter module that connects the cable and converts it to digital inputs. Same with brakes.
All of the electronics (lights, wipers, windows, locks, radio, etc.) will need to be rewired since there’s no longer an alternator.
Probably will need upgraded suspension and brakes to handle the extra weight.
There’s probably a lot more I’m not thinking about or not even aware of. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s going to happen outside of rich enthusiast circles, which is terribly sad, because I completely agree with you. Basically everything made after around 2010 is total dogshit.
Aaawwww Man. I hate to admit it but you’re absolutely right. It’s so much work it might not even be worth it.
Spaßbremse!
/s
Reality is often disappointing
It is, depending on the expectation
the only tech i need in my car is an aux port. i will forever buy used cars from before 2010 but after around 2004ish?
Depends on what kind of car you have. I know for a fact there is a company doing this with classic mini coopers.
I dont know the details, but Ive heard of companies that do this, or kits that can be used for it, existing, though I can only imagine that changing a car that one’s business has not manufactured and was never designed for such a conversion must take a lot of manual work, which would be expensive before even considering things like the cost of batteries.
Power train conversion is reasonably simple. Just throw combustion engine and transmission box away, make brackets for electric motors and attach them directly to the wheels (with axles if necessary). Conversion of controls is (I assume) is also somewhat simple since existing brake system and power steering is quite straightforward to run with electric motors since you just need something which can run a belt drive and gas pedal is most likely already electric. For all the electronics you have plenty of space in where the engine used to be.
But. And there’s a pretty big but. Batteries are pretty big and pretty heavy. On any given combustion engine car there’s just no room for them (at least if you’re after a conversion with similar range/power than a readily built electric car). And even if you cut the floor panel off and modify it to accomodate battery pack (or whatever the route you choose might be) it’ll heavily affect weight distribution, frame stability and many other things, suspension included. Model S battery is apparently 540kg, so if you’ll do a conversion to your corolla you might save around 150kg of weight by removing old engine+transmission but you’d still have additional 300kg of mass to deal with.
For a van which is designed to haul heavy loads from the start it might be pretty simple to just raise floor of the cargo space a bit but for a common sedan that’s a whole another thing.
I looked into this for my car. The conversion has a 50 mile range, essentially replaces the engine with an electric motor, locks the car in 3rd gear, and replaces the fuel tank with batteries.
It cost about £3500, which was a bit much for me considering the car only cost £3k, and I could just sell my car to buy a 100mile+ leaf for the same outlay.
BEVs built from the ground up are much better at being BEVs.
In our local craigslist for cars website someone has been selling a -84(or so) Nissan Sunny for ages with electric conversion. The seller did just that, took combustion engine out, attached a electric motor into transmission and the result is that you have 80’s car, with manual transmission and batteries so small that once you’re out of the driveway you’ve depleted 10% of the batteries (give or take, but that’s pretty much what you’ll get). And it had something like 15kW minus losses of the drive train.
But the parts are so expensive (at least for now) that listed price is almost 10k€. I can understand that seller wants their money back and it isn’t the most serious conversion out there, but the reality is that you’ll get a shitty 80’s car with a even shittier EV conversion (since the frame has it’s limits and high quality components are expensive) while you can sell a similar car with a combustion engine for 350€ on a good day and a tank full.
Swapping an engine is relatively easy if you know what you’re doing… If these kits can connect the electric motor to the existing drive train it wouldn’t be too bad. Messing around with batteries big enough for an electric vehicle can be really dangerous though.
I don’t even use BT in mine and don’t use the music system either. I stick to my phone. I just hope by the time I need to switch cars, I’ll be able to jailbreak it without bricking.
At some point, I’m sure they will, at some point.
Nah. It’s less profitable.
You can’t download a car, but you sure can brick it.
That was a very scary and dystopian read, but thank you!
Honestly, I figured that they collected data. But I didn’t think the extent of it would be stuff like my sex life and genetic data. How the hell do those work?
They track you and then different kind of tools are trying to profile you based on your data. Similarly how ads work on the internet. Saying your car collect data of your sex life more like means they collect absolutely everything about you and then they run it through different software to profile you then sell all this data for extra profit. If you daily drive to a school they will assume you have a family and kids. If you go to a random apartment complex once a week after your kids went sleep they will assume you have a mistress. Its all based on location data and the stuff you enetered during registration.
They can also track who your devices are near. If your phone sits next to someone else’s in an office building for nearly 8 hours a day and they know that persons job they can infer yours, especially since departments tend to sit together. Ad companies often assume recurring groups of people share overlapping interests (hence why their together multiple times) and will push out ads based on what other people around you are interested in to see if you are too.
Interesting. Makes a lot of sense, though it sucks that it’s all based on assumptions because it sounds like it can easily be mistaken for a lot of things.
That’s how most of them work. I got baby toys for a friend’s baby and the Internet started trying to sell me all kinds of baby things. You listen to a lot of podcasts about craft beer? They assume you’re a 40 year old white dude who needs beard oil.
I’m betting the sex tracking is more about the pressure sensors in the seats for the seatbelt warning system.
I’m guessing if you talk about that stuff in your car, it send that data home.
Oh that makes more sense.
My mind went to a completely different approach, collecting your data when you fuck someone in the car. Length of sex, moaning volume and pumps per minutes is what I was thinking of.
Hahaha I like that idea better.
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Holy cow.
And nobody can jailbreak and disable these “features”?
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I LOVE HAVING CAR DEPENDENCY. I LOVE PAYING FOR LESS EFFICIENT TRANSPORT AND ALL OF MY OWN MAINTENANCE AND FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING MY DATA SOLD. I SPEND EVERY MOMENT NOT DRIVING WISHING I COULD BE BEHIND THE WHEEL AND DOING NOTHING ELSE BUT FOCUSING ON DRIVING WHILE ON MY WAY TO [CONSUME] AND MAKE DATA FOR [BRAND]. PLEASE, NO PUBLIC TRANSIT, I LIKE MY FREEDOM THANKS.
Personally, as a non-car owning person, I love how I have to stick to the narrow patch of walkway next to roads where I get to inhale exhaust fumes whether I like it or not, have to stop and yield to oncoming traffic when looking to cross the road, and leave my life and personal safety in the hands of people I don’t know and pray they pay attention and don’t hit me.
I hate it as a driver. I would love to walk or bike more, but I’m far enough from anywhere I want to go that it doesn’t make any practical sense to. I strongly dislike driving everywhere, and I wish our pedestrian and bike infrastructure (and public transit) didn’t suck so bad. I wouldn’t mind using the bicycle gutter, if I had one, but I’d be very nervous to let my kids use it because I don’t trust the magic paint strip.
Suburbs really suck in this regard. I get a choice between a 15 minute bus that comes every 2-3 hours to get to my local train station or walk 1:30 minutes along the same road with zero footpath for the majority of the journey on a 70kmh road.
I drive a hybrid in rural areas, and I try to always flip the car into electric only mode when I see a cyclist coming up so they don’t have to inhale my tailpipe. I’m sure it isn’t much in the grand scheme, but I hope they at least breathe a little better.
That’s a problem of where you live
Imagine being so braindead that “going for a drive” is a legitimate form of entertainment that you get excited about.
I get the sentiment but have you ever driven a fun car on a beautiful night? Driving a topless Jeep through the twisty highway in the redwoods of Northern California or a Camaro through the wide open Nevada desert? High schoolers driving their bro dozer around town in circles, yeah, I get that.
This but motorcycles for me. Cars with the windows down are a limp substitute for hitting the bottom of a hill in a fall or spring morning on a motorbike.
Other people don’t enjoy the same things I do! Harrumph!
Obviously you’ve never went for a good ole drive before
Or driven a fun car.
Not every car is a 1.5 liter Chevy Equinox.
I (maybe naively) believe a healthy society could find a way to build a robust public transport network and still accommodate the minority of enthusiasts who drive and work on cars for fun.
Engineers aren’t just dry husks of people, robotically creating solutions to meet needs. The drive to create cars, planes, and motorbikes, which have significant technical overlap with trains, buses, and mobility aids, is at least partially borne from the thrill of piloting machines that extend human capabilities.
“Please do not turn off the engine during installation”
Tell that to my empty gas tank.
That’s the most ridiculous part to me. Why isn’t this able to continue off the car battery? It should be do not disconnect car battery if anything. I hope there’s some sort of fail safe to prevent it from bricking that doesn’t involve a factory reset or dealer visit.
It’s because they don’t want the car battery running flat during installation. Kind of like how your phone requires a minimum battery charge to update
Yeah but shouldn’t the power usage for the infotainment system be similar to a cell phone at this point with similar hardware where it really shouldn’t be possible to run a car battery dead during an update?
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Ideally. Depends on the update time too. I know flashing ECU tunes requires a battery topper. I’ve also killed a car battery modding my infotainments firmware so it’s totally possible. But most likely Subaru is doing it out of an abundance of caution… Don’t want an angry customer coming saying the update killed their battery
I’m extremely curious what would happen if I just shut it down and left it as usual while it is updating but I’m not ready to test it out yet. Lol
If the programmers have any competence, the update will just fail and you’ll have to restart the process.
They would need something like an A/B partition once it starts writing otherwise it’s gonna be soft bricked. Car manufacturer programming are usually terrible so I doubt they have any solutions implemented lol
So that sort of happened to me on the previous gen of this infotainment unit.
I used the app to turn on the car and it keeps the car on for a short time, I started the update but it took way longer than I expected and the car shut off halfway through.
It seems to me that the unit is kept in some low power standby mode, when I turned the car back on, it just continued from where it stopped.
Good to know.
Haha now reinstall FordOS
Well, if it’s a new car, it might not use any battery from idling anyway. Still a stupid requirement though.
I’m kind of surprised that car technology is so awful. How the fuck am I paying $35k for a car and they’re still like “lets run the UI off a potato via the least responsive touch screen possible”? At some point I’d rather they just gave up on providing a UX themselves and just ran everything through Android Auto.
I’m waiting for the day we have linux cars
It’s not Linux, but there’s an open source project available where you can build your own engine ECU with an Arduino https://hackaday.io/project/4413-speeduino
I get it, but I don’t feel comfortable putting my car in the hands of an Arduino.
Nothing against the open source software at all. It’s the fact that the Arduino is a consumer experimentation board, not an automotive rated component. I’m concerned for the reliability of the Arduino under the operating conditions of an automobile.
Usually aftermarket ECU means no longer road legal.
Well, Polestars run Android
Android Automotive, not to be confused with the entirely separate and unrelated Android Auto.
Not entirely unrelated, Android Auto is basically a projection app for Android Automotive.
Android auto is your phone projecting to your cars infotainment system. This can work independent of what the cars operating system is. Android automotive is Android “optimized” as an operating system for a cars infotainment system.
Android auto runs on your phone. Android automotive runs in your car.
Android auto runs on your phone. Android automotive runs in your car.
Yes, but Android Auto does need some work on the car OS side to operate, i.e. within Android Automotive in this example (although Blackberry QNX is probably more common these days, automakers are moving away from it)
but Android Auto does need some work on the car OS side to operate
Yes, I was just arguing against Android auto and Android automotive being the same or similar thing.
Pretty much every car is running Linux at this point.
That doesn’t mean it’s open and non shitty.
Tesla cars run on Linux, and have been doing for years https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/what-os-does-tesla-use
Elon can go fuck himself tho
I’d love to be able to swap the engine. Or better - build it myself 👀
Or better - build it myself
That’s called a kit car.
They gotta get better collection systems of that sweet sweet sex you’re having in your car
I absolutely cannot stand Subaru’s infotainment system. It’s actually the primary reason I’ll never get another one.
Where the FOSS cars at?
I love my Subaru. But the infotainment system is awful. It’s slow and unresponsive, it frequently takes a few minutes to warm up to even be usable, which means usually when you can use it you’re already moving. It’s absolutely impossible to do anything outside of the touch screen.
The car is great, but that computer is a piece of crap
My mom has a ‘16 Subaru and the infotainment has been such a hassle. I had to constantly keep repairing her Bluetooth. It was so bad that my daughter, who has wanted a Subaru for years decided against one simply because of the infotainment.
My ‘15 Mitzu (love her so much) also has a full shit infotainment system. It’s super slow, Bluetooth has a 1.5 second delay (try watching anything on your phone while waiting for someone with that delay!) and also constantly drops connection and re-pairs.
I’ve got a BT-to-3.5mm jack BT adapter that connects INSTANTLY, sounds fantastic, and has NO DELAY.
…the got dang car doesn’t have A 3.5MM JACK WHY THE FUCK
It has sadly only gotten worse. Still not as bad as the Nissan I had, but it’s pushing it
She ended up getting a 2016 Nissan Rogue, but it did not have an infotainment system. It is a fairly simple system with Bluetooth connectivity for audio. I wish more companies would give us the ability to modify the systems, especially after they abandon them (my 2015 Toyota Tacoma’s last map update is from about 6 months before my truck was built.)
My Subaru made me drop Android and buy an iPhone. I hate the phone, but the infotainment system works drastically better. Android Auto was hot garbage.
Just out of curiosity, what android phone did you have before switching? I haven’t hadany issues with Android Auto the few times I’ve used it in a rental car. My car is too old for it but it’s going to be a variable in my next vehicle purchase which admittedly is very far away.
Android auto in isolation is generally fine. I’ve owned an aftermarket head unit that offered android auto and it worked flawlessly with my pixel phone.
When I bought a Subaru crosstrek, android auto using the same phone was terrible. It constantly disconnects and has strange audio issues all the time. Apple carplay works fine with my partners phone.
There is something about Subaru and their implementation that is total shit for android auto specifically. I wouldn’t recommend them for a good android infotainment experience.
Wireless android auto has a huge difficulty connecting to my Subaru, it was co developed by Toyota and uses Toyota software though. 95% of the time I restart the head unit and toggle Bluetooth on my pixel they will connect though.
Exactly. This is on a Legacy. I liked my Android phone way better but I was constantly messing with it while I was driving because of it.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience. My legacy (2021) has a much better experience on my phone with Android auto than on my wife’s iphone.
I’ve also never had an issue with Android Auto, my issues with the console are all exclusively within the computer itself
Hooking your car up to a phone regardless, is for the weak.
Yeah these infotainment systems are trash. I think the Subaru one is made by Denso. Like, Denso makes spark plugs and shit, stay in your line Denso! Thank fuck for Carplay/Android Auto.
Yeah spark plug divisions and companies should be making spark plugs and M3 submachine gun aka the Grease gun.
I cam confirm that the Subarus my inlaws have had over the last 5 years have the worst infotainment systems I have ever interacted with. Their current one keeps killing the battery. Not just draining, but actually damaging it. They have had a loaner from the dealer for the last 3 months.
Love how it drives, but the electronics are annoying to use, slow, and way too distracting.
Which car manufacturer ? So that I can avoid it.
This looks like a Subaru. That being said, from what I’ve parsed, their privacy policy looks better than most. My 2021 hasn’t had any obnoxious OTA updates. The worst it does is push easily dismissed service notifications. No secret codes on how to reset a light.
How does this update even happen? Are owners connecting their car to internet?
I’d like to know this as well…
If not, are they using some always on GSM data connection or something?
Doesn’t sound like something I’d want unless there’s somehow an actual significant Value Add proposition that I’m just not seeing.
Yeah, pretty much all new cars have some amount of cellular connectivity. Usually you can’t actually use it without paying some subscription, but the manufacturers use it to push updates.
Sounds like some shit I’d want to remove or disable as soon as the car is paid for.
I mean, I don’t like my car updating but I’d rather things get fixed than not. Software recalls are a huge headache in the auto industry, and being able to just download an update that fixes something is way easier than going to a dealership and having them use very specific tools and software to update the car/modules.
It’s also used for anti-theft features for a lot of newer cars, if your car is stolen it can be remotely disabled entirely. That’s really what’s more scary in my opinion.
Not interested in any of that here.
In over 32 years of driving and having owned dozens of cars I’ve only ever had one stolen.
It was 29 years ago and was actually my (now ex) girlfriend’s car and even that one only got stolen because I had a spare key to it in my glovebox and forgot to lock my truck’s doors that night.
Which is interesting to say the least given that most cars from the past few years use LTE radios which will eventually work about as well as cars from the early 2000s with OnStar.
See what happened to all the Hyundais and Kias with 3g.
The car has some form of AT&T GSM connectivity. I recently discovered a WiFi hot spot setting and it’s a paid service provided by AT&T. I am able to schedule service appointments via the car, and it has an SOS button and an “Info” button that primarily is for roadside assistance. I’d prefer to be able to disable it. I was gonna say I thought Subaru was a bit better. Buttttt it looks like I’m wrong.
It is a Subaru. I know it has a radio in it but I don’t pay for the service. I actually don’t know if it’s using its own radio or the connection on my phone. I’ve had the car for most of the year and this is the first update I’ve seen. It took about 10-12 minutes. As I have no patience, sitting in my driveway waiting for it to finish drove me nuts, but for the most part it was painless. It’s definitely something I don’t want to have to get used to.
Do you need to buy a service for the radio?
Sorry. I mean cellular radio.
Oh, now makes sense
We’ve had the ascent since 2019 and I have never seen it update. I figured it was doing it in the background swapping boot banks or something.
All of them, soon enough. Light bulb companies realized a long time ago that selling quality products is a self-defeating game, you want either planned obsolescence, or sell a “service” through a permanent subscription model.
We seriously need strict regulations to reign in this bullshit.
Subscription anything needs be illegal unless it’s an active service being provided.
Screens should be flat out banned in cars. Fuck your infotainment and sale features, I don’t care. If we agree that phones too dangerous to use while driving (and they are), then a having a fucking tablet glued to the dash is literally no different. Plus, we’re still in a global chip shortage, we should be conserving them for more important things.
Self driving features can fuck right off. It’s absolutely mind-boggling how these systems are allowed on public roads with zero regulatory oversight.
Most active safety features are bullshit workarounds for shitty design and engineering that create massive blindspots. They also create lazy, complacent drivers who become dependent on tech that subject to equipment and logic failures. Good visibility can’t just suddenly stop working.
Anything bigger than a sedan or station wagon should require a special license for industrial and ag use only. Fuck your compensation-mobiles, they’re literally killing us in more ways than one.
None of this will ever happen because we know who really owns our governments.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Screens should be flat out banned in cars
Can’t say I agree. The appearance of GPS was a game changer for me and a lot of people. I still remember the old days where every time I picked the car in an unfamiliar place was a gamble. I can’t even count how many gas I wasted going in circles looking for a reference. Found road works? I’m fucked again, I guess.
No, I don’t miss those days at all. Now, if you want to tell me infotainment screens need strict regulations, that’s another story. Nothing beyond android auto apps, radio and options that only work in a full stop should be allowed. But “voting” with your wallet works. When I bought my car I was indecisive between 2 of them. The fact one of them had most stuff in a infotainment that was below the driver FOV made my choice easy. The one I bought has most buttons as physical ones. Only the radio isn’t. The screen is small and I can use it without taking my eyes off the road (which I only use for google maps, spotify and taking calls).
It’s also our responaibility as buyers to know what we’re getting. I see a lot of people complaining about stuff in their car they should’ve known while they were still in the looking phase. If you can’t research the car you’re buying before you buy it then you deserve all the disappointment.
Nah. Plan ahead, use your phone’s GPS with voice instructions.
Using the phone’s GPS with voice instructions was crucial to my success in finding the car i was looking for.
Idk why no one plans ahead nowadays.
My car just has an aftermarket head unit with BT. I just map my route on my phone and set it in a cubby.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Light bulb companies realized a long time ago that selling quality products is a self-defeating game
Yes really. Educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
Edit: shit I didn’t see that was a link!
After watching it, my point very much still stands. That video is completely misconstruing the whole argument.
So like… do you want to say anything more than “I’m right and this is wrong”? Because I’ve seen that video before and I’m still feeling the opposite way you are
They’re responding to the “Light Bulb Companies” part, not the “selling quality products” part. That video very clearly (10-15 mins too long) shows that Light Bulb Companies had legitimate reasons for limiting light bulb hours.
While the Phoebus Cartel may have artificially limited the lifespan of lightbulbs, there was a legitimate reason to do so, and it wasn’t just planned obsolescence so you buy more.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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