This comes up surprisingly often, but this comment chain in the recent AMA prompted me to start a general discussion to maybe put this discussion to rest.
The only other place I’m aware that this has been discussed in detail is this pull request from 2023, which the creator ultimately closed.
What I’m ultimately in favour of, and what actually gets requested (one, two, three), is letting mods edit the metadata around a post. Things like the NSFW toggle, or post tags in 1.0.
But I’m throwing this out to the floor. What, if anything, do you think mods should be able to change about a user’s content?
Content, titles, uploaded images etc, no.
Post metadata (NSFW/tags), yes.
I don’t think so, only be able to change meta data like NSFW status, and possibly Tags if and when they’re introduced to Lemmy.
No, why? That is an utterly stupid idea. No-one should be able to edit some else’s posts. Even more: posts should be audit-proof.
If a post contains content that is not allowed, the post should be deleted, that’s it.
If a post contains content that is not allowed, the post should be deleted, that’s it.
OK, but what about content that is allowed, but has certain restrictions, like needs to be tagged NSFW. The current workflow to get this changed is: A mod comments under a pot telling the creator to tag it NSFW -> Remove the post -> wait for the creator to edit the post -> restore the post. This seems needlessly complicated and labour intensive, no?
It does seem like something that could be fixed with better automated tooling, but should it be?
For tagging it isn’t the post data that needs to be changed, but it’s metadata, which seems more reasonable for mods to be able to change. I’m not familiar enough with Lemmy to know if that distinction exists under the hood.
I don’t think mods should ever change the content of any user’s post or comment. Delete? Sure. Edit? No.
With that said, I don’t see changing the form or metadata as changing the content, so tags or NSFW are fair game from my point of view.
I also think that the ability to merge posts, as long as they are in the same community, could be useful. Think of a scenario where several posts are made in a short timeframe on the same topic. This splits the discussion and is kinda spamming. Merging would keep things clean without losing data. Something like moving the duplicates as comments under one post and all comments from them as replies. But if this involves a delete and rewrite as opposed to a trackable reference point change, than it can get iffy, as it counts as posting something in someone’s name. I don’t really know how things are implemented so I don’t know if this is possible, just something to think about.
And we should take it a step further and have posts be digitally signed by the author. That way we can detect any db-level tampering.
This is a great idea
Yeah, things like tags and the nsfw flag makes sense. It’s a useful tool that doesn’t hurt anyone, and reduces the hassles involved in removing a post just because there were errors in that surface level stuff.
Now, editing the content, no. Hell no.
The nsfw flag is the more important one tbh.
But, tags allow users to search and sort things (or ideally would, no idea what the actual implementation might be). Having consistent tagging for that purpose is a net plus as a user because if mods can change them, then when you search or sort, there’s a higher chance that the results will be consistent. When users pick their own tags and they can’t be changed, results get messy unless a mod removes the post, contacts the user, tells them what tag to use, then watches to make sure they use it when they repost/edit.
There’s no use for tags other than sorting, searching and filtering. So a mod kinda needs to be able to change them if they’re in place at all
as a mod/admin, i would appreciate being able to edit post titles. there have been a fair number of times where i asked a poster to do so, and then waited a while for them to before deleting the post if they don’t.
and/or, it would be nice to have a way for us to temporarily semi-delete a post while waiting for OP to make requested changes to it; that is, to hide it from the community view but leave it visible to people with the URL, or people who find it via the user profiles of the poster or commenters in it.
editing titles would be awkward without an edit history or, at the least, a way to see that some 2nd party had edited it, and editing post bodies would be even more so. but it would make sense and be useful with an edit history, i think.
i would also appreciate having content addressability, portable identity, composable moderation, and… perhaps a pony 😂
How much can people be trusted? How well does an open modlog and the ability to move instances work as a means to keep abusive mods in check? That’s basically what the question comes down to.
I have no doubt that well-meaning and good natured mods could put post and comment editing of others to good use to improve the end user experience for most users. But these kinds of tools are also easily abused, and in worse ways than simple banning and deletion. For this reason, disallowing editing is definitely safer. But is that tradeoff actually better? I don’t know.
Nope. And it wouldn’t work very well with activityhub.
Not everyone who is on Lemmy is actually on the platform. If things get changed retroactively, it will look extremely weird with only Lemmy showing the change but every other fediverse platform showing the original, modlog or not.
At that point, I wouldn’t trust Lemmy all that much anymore.
Edit: ah reread, tags and NSFW might be good for specific communities. Although again activityhub will be the issue.
I thought you were going with editing posts like on reddit that one time. That I’m opposed to.
As per usual, the “free speech on someone else’s dime” folks think the people running the forums they feel entitled to shouldn’t have actual moderation tools. Shocking.
Once upon a time, people overseeing web forums used to have the ability to move posts, split topics, and even shunt comment chains into other, exising posts. But all Reddit allows is to delete, and so this space that apes some of the worst bits about Reddit thinks they shouldn’t do any better than the lowest of fucking low bars.
Once upon a time, people overseeing web forums used to have the ability to move posts, split topics, and even shunt comment chains into other, exising posts.
You are perfectly right about this. However the times, or at least the environment have changed. I trusted most web forum moderators for acting in good faith, one or two orders of magnitude more than any Reddit (or now Lemmy) moderator…
it seems useful, but I think it should appear in the moderation log. and the log entries relating to a post should be visible on the post’s page, possibly by clicking an item in an overflow menu
but mod editing probably should be limited to metadata.
Hell no, this isn’t Reddit. Edit my posts and I’m gone.
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