The US primaries and the general election are two different things. Voting uncommitted in the primary expresses support for the Palestinian plight and does not give Republicans any ground.
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
That being said, anyone who calls for an uncommitted or third-party vote in the general election i will personally kick in the gender neutral balls (in Minecraft).
That’s not the message though, so this is disingenuous or misleading. We all 98% agree the US should tell Israel to quit their shit and not give them more funds or weapons, and that it’s disappointing Biden and 90% of the US political establishment have supported this. However, what people are told is we should not vote for Biden, and vote third party or not vote, to ‘send the Democrats a message’. Enough people doing that would have the predictable result of getting Trump elected, so yeah, it’s a decent question why people would suggest that when a Trump admin would surely be worse on the Palestine issue.
I agree with this and it’s what I’m afraid of. I totally support voting in the primary as you wish, even just to send a message (I support voting how you wish in all cases). But in this case using primary voting to send a dissatisfied message about the Democratic candidate has me worried it will instead send a wider message (or mass media will push this message) that the US populace feels Biden is unpopular compared to Trump.
Which is absolutely not the case with the vast majority of people voting against Biden in the primary. But that kind of message (accidental or intentional) can do real harm to prevent a literal fascist takeover in November. This is the totality of my concern and if we weren’t facing down the potential end of democracy in the US, I’d give a lot less shits about potentially torpedoing Biden’s chances. And I feel a lot of the hate against Biden has galvanized right around the time the primary season started which seems convenient for Trump.
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You can’t argue this without being called a conspiracy theorist who likely also believes that 9/11 was an inside job as well (or at least was permitted to occur by the CIA)
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A conspiracy is an agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
Such things indisputably occur everyday
It’s almost like sending bombs to kill innocent children might be one of those wedge issues
you misunderstand the us primary election process.
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
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it’s so depressing dude. children and families are dying and somehow when a group of people get together to try to make change in a safe way they get accused of supporting MAGA.
i’m so blackpilled with how quickly this community takes to knee-jerk name calling and misinformation.
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eh in the face of name calling and bad faith plastering of the label “fascist” i’m not going to do the same
i do get what you are saying! but i’m gonna try to be the better woman and firmly encourage informed self-interrogation when this happens, rather than falling back to good old comparison with the enemy.
You’re a better person than me, hats off.
thanks buddie 😭
I mean, try and keep in mind that lemmy isn’t a monolith.
As many brow-beaters as there are trying to force you into voting against your own interests for yet another corporate Democrat (oh but this one is less against your own interests than that other guy), there are also people trying to express nuance and having a real conversation.
Its clear to me leftists and progressives need their own party. It can and should caucus with Democrats, but it needs to have its own, actually democratic, primary system independent from whatever the-fuck-is-this-bull-shit thing the Democrats call a primary. No I don’t think any of the existing parties are sufficient (DSA or greens).
I put a post up a few minutes ago advocating for this. I think it could find its start in the upper-midwest, be focused on inclusivity and social democracy, and still caucus with Democrats. But there is no power in blue-no-matter-who. In many ways, its blue-no-matter-who that has delivered us a burgeoning neofacist movement, because we’re forced to vote for shitty corporate Democrats uncritically. We need to abandon the white-liberalism of the NYT, NPR, Atlantic, and WaPo crowd. Its not working, It never worked. Enlightened mediocrity has only made things worse for all of us. This is probably my last election as a registered Democrat. I switched from independent to Democrat to support Bernie, and have put in several thousand hours since 2015 organizing and fundraising for various Democratic candidates or leftist projects. The Democrats turned out to be a bad investment of that time, and I sometimes wonder if Bernie thinks the same thing.
Working Families Party
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nah. New party. No prior art to contend with
Your unwillingness to understand other people’s opinions is appalling.
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please google “uncommitted movement”; virtually every assertion you make here is false.
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I link to search engines all the time am I a bot?
Or am I trying to show you multiple sources so that you can judge and make your own decisions?
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Are you not intelligent enough to make your own decisions?
Do you need them spoonfed to you?
Personally, I thought you were an adult, but this conversation is proving otherwise.
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are you okay
Clearly they are not. It seems like a weak attempt to try to “catch” a commenter out as a bot driven by AI?
Once again, the idea that real people with real opinions that differ from theirs exist is an impossibility, and thus there must be a nefarious reason for them having this opinion. They’re either a Republican, or a Russian, or a bot, or a or a or a…
It seems they have sunk to the level of where, since they feel they can no longer trust that things on the internet are real, have decided only things that fit their ideologies could be a reality, and anything otherwise leads them into frothing-at-the-mouth madness.
I understand that the internet is a scary place filled with misinformation but hot damn it’s a bad coping mechanism to assume the worst of everyone you encounter who has a different hot take than you.
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Beep boop fuck off
No, I sure don’t. Talking endless shit about Biden will affect more than the primary.
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Bias is a concept that applies to entities who would possibly be neutral, such as judiciary or journalists. I’m neither and my opinion isn’t about bias: It’s my opinion. Yes, I do believe Republicans would be worse than Democrats on every single issue possible, and a Democratic administration might actually do some helpful things.
Which literally has nothing to do with also holding Democrats feet to the fire and expecting them to do better.
Bias is a thing that applies to everyone, it’s also a social thing, not just a legal thing. If your bias makes it so you don’t actually listen to what other people are saying, then that is impacting you and others socially.
I have very much listened to what people are saying and I’ve discussed in in detail with dozens of people recently. Saying I have an anti-Trump bias is incorrect as it’s based on clear logic, experience and very good reasons. I don’t have any particular love for Biden or Democrats.
Yes, hold Democrats feet to the fire and expect them to do better. Asking for election reform and supporting better primary candidates would be a great idea. Giving Biden a bunch of one-sided unfair criticism and calling him braindead shit like ‘genocide joe’ or “both parties are fascism!!” is not how to do it right now.
The effect may be to change the Democrats’ behavior, but it’;s too late in the race. What do you expect them to do, find a different candidate? The main effect would be to discourage otherwise Biden voters from voting at all, campaigning for him, saying positive things about him online, or to vote for third parties. Guess who that helps? I have a really hard time believing that everyone saying these things doesn’t understand that, especially when the same people somehow have very little criticism for the actual fascist in the race. If you want to think my saying “I really don’t want that lecherous, dishonest, incoherent, greedy, soulless criminal imbecile and his pack of nazis and looters back in the White House” is the result of bias, then okay.
I don’t expect them to do anything other than maybe be honest with themselves that Netanyahu isn’t operating good faith, and hasn’t been for thirty years. He’s a known quantity. He moaned about Obama’s peace deal with Iran and loved it when Trump nuked it. He has been claiming Iran is “three years away” from a nuclear weapon for literally fucking thirty years. He was instrumental in arguing that the US should invade Iraq and the lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was somehow tangentially related to 9/11. Why are we trusting Netanyahu of all people? To me it almost feels orchestrated by Netanyahu to fuck Biden in the general because he knew Biden would kowtow. They had warning about October 7th a year in fucking advance, including warning from US intelligence. Fucking convenient, huh? Netanyahu is and has been a genocidal maniac, so a chance to help his buddy Trump and also help himself to US weaponry probably seemed like a fucking No Brainer.
I’m going to vote for fucking Biden in the general because I’m not an idiot. I don’t spend a whole shitload of time critiquing Trump of all people because dude I’m old I’ve hated that worthless obese piece of shit since the 1980’s when he was the butt of jokes in fucking Bloom County.[1] If you don’t already know why that dude is a dangerous maladjusted loser, you’re not getting sold otherwise by now. Why would I rant on and on about it when I’m fucking furious that Merrick fucking Garland has been slow walking this shit, literally waiting until Trump became so belligerent with protected secrets that he had to start an investigation. If I talk about that shit too much, it’ll give me a fucking heart attack because he’s a walking talking abomination that is proof in the pudding of a two tiered justice system that is too pussy and incapable of fucking jailing the fucker. And no offense, Democrat decisions like not prosecuting Bush for fucking war crimes when they had the chance plays into why they feel like they can’t touch Trump. We wouldn’t even step up for fucking war crimes. Further, Merrick Garland himself was another example trying to “work with” Republicans and all it has done is fuck us in the ass. We need an AG with balls, not this fucking pussy.
“Donald Trump is accidentally and fatally injured by the anchor of his own yacht. Incredibly, surgeons turn to Bill the Cat as a donor body in which to insert Trump’s still-living brain. Trapped in Bill’s body, Trump finds himself disinherited from his financial empire and estranged from his wife Ivana. With nowhere else to turn, he takes Bill’s place in the Bloom County boarding house, making unsuccessful attempts to start from scratch and occasionally being given equally unsuccessful lessons on the value of life by Opus. This eventually culminates in Trump regaining power and using it to buy out Bloom County, firing the entire staff of characters in the process.” ↩︎
That all sounds pretty reasonable to me. I think I remember that Bloom County sequence too! I didn’t really think about Trump when I was young. I think I thought he was a member of Duran Duran or something. We read about him dumping his wife for Marla Maples and I thought she was hot, but that’s about it. Then he disappeared and came back as a game show host for some weird reason, and with the WWE, which was odd. When he really clearly distinguished himself as a horrible person was when he started the Obama ‘birth certificate’ thing around 2012.
i agree! and so does the uncommitted movement. that’s why a third party or uncommitted vote will not be called after the primary. the shit talking will generally end as soon as the primaries are over, regardless of the outcome.
you seem to be here in good faith so i encourage you to look more into what the uncommitted movement is thinking. these aren’t stupid folks and they well understand the concerns which you bring up and are strategizing within that very framework. perhaps you will be led to interrogate assumptions you had previously made, perhaps not. :)
I find it pretty unlikely the one sided criticism of the Democratic Party and politicians will end after the primary, and you’re ignoring that not everyone receiving these messages is on board with your theory. Oh, he’s “genocide joe” only til the primary is done, then vote for him! And meanwhile you’re going to continue strangely never saying anything critical or realistic about Trump and Republicans, right?
i agree, genocide joe is kind of a dumbass nickname.
and you’re wrong, watch: trump, if elected, will go fucking balls to the wall in “finishing” the genocide. trump is a genocidal freak and biden is only slightly better because democrats may have the opportunity to sway him.
so hopefully that teaches you to make assumptions lol
Okay, great. We agree about that at least. I’m being pragmatic about the election. Pressuring Democrats about Palestine is great, but do we want to help Palestinians? Getting Trump elected will not do that, and the only way to prevent it at this point, short of buying him 10,000 hamberders, is supporting Biden, even though he’s not most people’s ideal candidate.
If you don’t want to hear people shit-talking Biden then you need to either avoid politics altogether or stick to a filter bubble that doesn’t tolerate such criticism.
Who said the issue was I don’t want to hear it? I’m here discussing it. My point is that it’s counterproductive, unfair, and likely to lead to worse outcomes for the US and the entire world. The #1 issue is “gEnOcIdE jOe” which is kind of ridiculous given that not just Biden but 90% of the US political establishment supported the same policies, AND we’ll end up getting genocide Donald, who will throw away Ukraine, run his own genocide on Central Americans in the US, do the same but worse in Israel (Trump recently said Israel should “finish the job”). Hmm, but maybe some people prefer one of those things.
Seems pretty productive to me, we haven’t even finished the primaries yet and the sudden drop in support has pushed Biden from “Humanitarian pause” to openly calling for a temporary ceasfire.
At this rate he might even call for a permanemt ceasefire and halt weapons shipments to Israel in time for the general election, but if we don’t let the party know they need to change then they won’t.
Seems like its long past time to stop supporting 90% of the political establishment, then.
Admitting that the American public is willing to support genocide out of fear that the wrong genocider might take power is the first step towards changing our political system to send war criminals to the hague instead of the white house.
I saw the ‘undecided’ crowd (which was a concept that came after criticizing Biden and discouraging voters for months) credited themselves with him making that decision, though I doubt it was the only influence. It’s been kind of apparent that political opponents have been using that as an issue against Biden and it is pretty unpopular, not to mention generally wrong, so of course he should change policy. I think they can figure that out themselves too.
Well, if you have figured out a way to stop AIPAC from influencing US politics, great! It’s only been about 80 years of sending them billions of dollars in weapons and arms each year. The idea that Americans are going to send their own politicians to international criminal court in the EU is pretty far-fetched. I’d start with Bush, Rice and Cheney personally.
And most people aren’t saying you need to vote for Biden in the primary. They’re talking about the general.
yes, for the love of all that is holy vote for biden in the general 🫠🙏🙏
So if you get that, then why are you blatantly misrepresenting the discussion?
you have it backwards. here is a list of comments which were blatantly misrepresenting the uncommitted movement. i am seeking to correct that misrepresentation.
Do you have context for those comments to show they are misrepresenting the uncommitted movement?
All of those comments appear to be talking about the general.
the post was removed by mods and was a meme showcasing the percent of voters who had voted “uncommitted” in the primaries. unfortunately i didn’t get a local copy of the meme before it was taken down.
So even though the comments are obviously talking about the general, since the primary clearly doesn’t determine who becomes president, we’re just supposed to believe that they’re actually talking about the primary?
Interesting.