• Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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    1 year ago

    I apparently think about it more critically than you do. All journalism is not propaganda; some is good in fact, and we can determine which is good and which is bad. And I at least have sources, whereas you have, uh… brain damage I guess?

    Also that’s a laughable and total misunderstanding of Voice of America’s history, mission, and goals. It has a reputation basically everywhere as being as close to objective and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC. I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name, which is not great on the critical thinking front!

    • edward@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      and reliable reporting as you can get outside the BBC

      “Russian state owned media bad. British state owned media good.”

      I guess you’re just assuming it’s bad based on its name

      No, we know it’s bad because it’s literally run by the US government.

      • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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        1 year ago

        The BBC isn’t state-owned. I know facts and nuance are tough but I do mention this in another comment. Go read it, you might learn something!

        • edward@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Type: Statutory corporation with a royal charter

          A statutory corporation is a government entity created as a statutory body by statute.

          It doesn’t matter what language you try to couch it in, “state funded”, “editorial independence”, whatever. It was founded by the state, is funded by the state, and is a government entity. If it quacks like a duck.

          • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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            1 year ago

            Couch it? What? You’re just wrong, it’s not state-run. Like words matter.

            • BuxtonWater@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              As a brit, it absolutely is state-run in every way except the technicallity of the employees not being government workers and having a semi-indepdent structure, it is undeniably linked to the british government by nature, history, and practicality.

              • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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                1 year ago

                It absolutely is not state-run; VOA and RT are and the BBC is not. Obviously it’s not totally cut and dry but to claim it’s state run is simply a misunderstanding of its history and charter. As I said earlier, words actually mean something.

    • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Suggesting I have Brain Damage and then doubling down on your argument that VOA is as good as another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation with a history of imperialism, colonialism, and a bunch of other atrocities. I’m not sure if you think you’re convincing me or anyone beyond your echo chamber of anything or just like to read your own words as reaffirmation of your own beliefs. Either way it’s useless.

      • Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Cite reliable sources proving it’s “another state-owned media outlet that promotes its own nation” or at least give us a demostrable example.

          • Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            What about it? You can’t just link to a page with a thousand words on it and pretend that it all proves your point. Elaborate.

            • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Oh sorry, read the first paragraph on that page. You don’t need to read anything else. Usually when someone shares a link I read the first few sentences if there’s no further explanation.

              • Concetta@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                Voice of America (VOA) is the largest U.S. international broadcaster, providing news and information in more than 40 languages to an estimated weekly audience of more than 326 million people. VOA produces content for digital, television, and radio platforms. It is easily accessed via your mobile phone and on social media. It is also distributed by satellite, cable, FM and MW, and is carried on a network of more than 3,500 affiliate stations.

                That’s the first paragraph. What are you talking about?

            • edward@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              lol you didn’t even bother clicking the link did you?

              VOA is part of the U.S. Agency for Global Media (USAGM), the government agency that oversees all non-military, U.S. international broadcasting. It is funded by the U.S. Congress.

              • Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                you didn’t even bother clicking the link did you?

                I mean, ditto for not bothering to exposit your point earlier

                But then:

                The United States Agency for Global Media (USAGM) … is an independent agency of the United States government that broadcasts news and information. It is considered an arm of U.S. diplomacy.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Agency_for_Global_Media

                In the United States government, independent agencies are agencies that exist outside the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary) and the Executive Office of the President.  In a narrower sense, the term refers only to those independent agencies that, while considered part of the executive branch, have regulatory or rulemaking authority and are insulated from presidential control, usually because the president’s power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government

                And while it’s true that Obama restructured the agency to operate under a single CEO appointed by him and Congress in 2008 rather than a bipartisan board, and was briefly caught serving some arguably innocuous political ads on Facebook to Americans violating the Smith-Mundt Act (brief pause to applaud the US for protecting its citizens), its reach and influence is largely limited to countries that have strict censorship laws.

                I’ve yet to see something even remotely comparable to the egregious ethical violations that RT practices on the daily. Most of the times I’ve seen it mentioned online is by people using the big scary word propaganda to discredit whatever they publish. And when push comes to shove, all they have to show for it is “well, it’s government-funded” and act all surprised when their headlines are milder than they had imagined, or cry out that their content is sending subliminal messages to advance Western Ideals for Democracy because they didn’t like the wording. And to that I’d like to say, y’all have worse reporting coming from within the house from more than one outlet. This is a weird scapegoat to single out solely for its funding. Actually point out something it has done instead if we’re gonna keep ourselves honest here.

        • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Why would the government support one of its own appendages acting for decades against its own interest in public reporting? Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs? Because all I see on the front page right now is speculation on what Russia “Could Be Preparing”, talking about how China’s “Dismal Foreign Minister Reflects Turmoil”, one about “Chinese Spy Ships” oh and the Chinese economy “Facing New Difficulties,” along with a Russia/DPRK story. idk, it seems to toe the line pretty strictly.

          I can give it the most marginal credit in terms of headlines for a few articles down the page

          "As Taiwan Election Heats Up Young Voters Flock to Third-Party Candidate "

          I’m surprised they aren’t more defensive of DPP, but then reading the article I see that the angle is apparently attacking the KMT and taking the new third party, the TPP, as a viable alternative that is still generally following western interests and hilariously promises to promote a “color revolution” in Taiwan along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for. TPP seems most in line with the “de-risking” line favored by the Biden administration rather than the more extreme “delinking” or the left wing “actual diplomatic engagement”.

          "Cambodian Ream Naval Base Modernized by China Nears Completion: Defense Ministry "

          I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner, let’s see how it opens:

          PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA — Cambodian officials say renovation work on a naval base in the coastal city of Sihanoukville is nearly complete, but U.S. officials have voiced suspicions the facility, being upgraded by China, will be used exclusively by China’s military.

          Suspicions about China’s intentions for the Ream naval base were raised after satellite imagery showed that a major pier capable of anchoring aircraft carriers had been constructed on the site.

          There we are. The rest is slightly softer but continues a tone of fearmongering.

          • Lemminary@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Can you show me a single case of it seemingly acting against the interest of the government to which it belongs?

            You’re asking for a very tall order considering that, having listened to US news most morning for the past three years, I can’t recall of a single mainstream US or foreign news outlet that has done that. Not even DW does that from Berlin. I don’t think that’s how the news operates, tbh.

            But if you ask, “do they report critical news on the US”?

            Then the answer is yes. It’s largely out Gov. Abbott’s move unethical and dangerous.

            along with class third-positionist nonsense about “divisiveness” that liberals always seem to fall for

            I honestly find your entire assessment more biased and exaggerated than the article.

            I’m surprised this isn’t framed in a more threatening manner,

            It’s the second time you act surprised that they didn’t meet your expectations of an overt propaganda channel.

            but continues a tone of fearmongering.

            Does it, though?

    • SomeRandomWords@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      I don’t disagree with you about VOA not being 100% propaganda, but I think the thing that RT and VOA do share in common is that they are state-funded. With that being said, WaPo (just like the BBC) isn’t state funded so it’s still a poor comparison.

      • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I concede it’s a stretched argument but WaPo is known for hiring ex-State Department/ex-CIA staff onto its editorial board. I’m too lazy to find source but say something that gets me riled up and I’ll find the source out of spite.

      • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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        1 year ago

        The BBC is quasi-state funded; its relationship with the government is not entirely cut-and-dry, since it is funded through a government act (though not directly by the UK itself).

        What matters is whether the state has controls that prevent it from interfering with its media sources, and whether the those sources have missions respecting journalistic integrity. For the VOA and BBC this is entirely true, both have charters specifically mandating them to do that and their respective governments have very clear “hands-off” laws and policies (or did until Trump, the story does get a little complicated for the VOA recently).

        RT on the other hand just publishes Putin’s marketing emails.

          • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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            1 year ago

            Is your goal to be wrong in as many places in this thread as possible? Cuz you are killing it if so.

              • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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                1 year ago

                I added productive statements already; I’m still literally the only one in this thread that’s cited anything. Are you afraid of researching your stances and backing them up? Because there is a troll here, and it is not me.

                • Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ve written papers where I just cited the articles that supported my arguments and didn’t do a full analysis of the literature. It’s a common practice in academia. Logic is better at convincing people.

                  • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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                    1 year ago

                    Well, your logic has been spectacularly unconvincing. And my continual exhortations for you to offer a single shred of evidence in support of your position have gone ignored, so… honestly my conclusion is you indeed have no evidence and no logic. Why are you even still replying if you have nothing to offer other than conspiracy theories and bad takes?

        • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Ok, fine. Let’s operate under this assumption. Find me an article from the VoA that is critical of the current President.

          I can find articles from the BBC that are extremely critical of Rishi Sunak (and Boris Johnson when he was still in office). I can find articles from the CBC that are extremely critical of Justin Trudeau (and old Stephen Harper). Any truly unbiased non-propaganda media outlet could surely find something to criticize about the ruling President, right?

            • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              Again, this isn’t about reporting facts that, by your opinion, look bad for Biden, but about political analysis (that VoA does do) that is negative for Biden.

              For example, articles like “Justin Trudeau drops into another pitfall of his own making” or “Why won’t Rishi Sunak give Partygate verdict on Boris Johnson?”, which has classic quotes like “‘Cowardly cop-out’” and “A scandal in plain sight”

              An independent journalist agency has no problems making such claims. VoA does.

              (Also, that article is by AP lol)

              • Veraticus@lib.lgbt
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                1 year ago

                I think this is goalpost shifting frankly. I can find more articles on VoA that are critical of Biden. The fact that they don’t include sensationalized titles doesn’t mean they’re less critical.

                • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure, go ahead. The article you sent is written by Associated Press, which is in fact an independent (American) not-for-profit and not funded by the US government. I would be a little more worried if they were, in fact, a government front.