I believe we also need better bikes - like velomobiles except designed easier to get in and out and less claustrophobic. Something like the podbike but non-electric. An enclosed space is something the car has that people want. Also recumbent bikes are more comfortable to ride. Something like a “velocar”.
I hate bicycles, they hurt my ass. I’m trying to build my own recumbent tadpole atm and want to build a velocar later.
I think if you want it to be easy to get in and out of, crank forward, or feet forward bicycles are a pretty good idea, like the rans bicycles, the day 6 bicycles, stuff like that. The tradeoff being that the front profile is kind of bunk on those in terms of the aerodynamics, at least, at the cost of the weight it would take to cover it, like a true velomobile. We also gotta ask why you’re covering it. If it’s just safety from weather elements, that’s fine, but it brings other problems, like the enclosed space getting pretty hot if you leave it sitting around, like the shell needing to be visible while still in the rain, and easily see-through, too, which is more of a problem when you don’t have windshield wipers, and when your window’s more slanted, like what it is on most velomobiles that have windows. If you’re adding A/C or heat for thermal regulation, those take up space and weight. Also would probably be a good idea for defogging the window, which is probably a larger concern in an enclosed space where you’re sweating a lot more. I dunno, I’ve just seen a lot of these “bike car” concepts, like the twike, or the podbike, and I haven’t seen much come of any of them, because they’re just too fuckin heavy, and at least in america, everyone’s concerned with what might happen if a driver gets distracted by this weird little bean floating around everywhere, and what happens if they get into a crash. Maybe one might have more luck by cutting weight, adding photovoltaic cells to power some of the electric systems, and then just chasing the maximum aero, like what aptera’s done, but yeah, I haven’t seen anyone actually tackle the problem in a way that makes much sense. I’m also gonna shout out the problem of these being much harder to park than a normal bike on a bike rack. You already see that with recumbents, but you see that even more with velomobiles, and that inefficient stacking might work out to be more concerning at scale, with mass deployment.
It’s also kind of inherently a niche product, with a low market demand, and so that drives up the costs for people who would otherwise be fine with the idea, and that’s all maybe a bigger problem than anything I’ve said thus far. Those who would be interested are probably going to be fine swapping out all the subsystems, and if they’re doing that, they’re probably just interested in buying your canopy, more than anything else, in buying your shell. I think you’re seeing technology play catch-up in terms of e-bikes, but most people at this point are better suited to your standard moped. The honda super cub is still the best selling motor vehicle of all time, and if I remember right, it’s not really even close. People are more willing to dress for the weather, and tolerate that, if they’re not also powering the vehicle, and working up a sweat.
Thanks for the reply, you’re clearly well informed about all the issues. I have some ideas but those are tough problems.
if you want it to be easy to get in and out of, crank forward, or feet forward bicycles are a pretty good idea
Yeah normal SWB recumbent bicycles are the easiest to hop oh and off and do improve aerodynamics. Personally I also want to build a MBB flevobike design where you steer with your feet, people say they are very fun to ride. Generally recumbents are faster, more comfortable and safer (lower to the ground) than upright.
For velomobiles, the podbike is pioneering the “low entry hurdle”. Not having to “climb in” but just “step in and sit down”" makes a huge difference in marketing I believe. Getting in and out doesn’t have to be that tricky like with pure velomobiles, the orca velomobile also improved this. You don’t really need compromises to make that happen and you reduce the “niche” factor.
We also gotta ask why you’re covering it.
Yeah windscreen with rain and condensation is why the best practice right now is to only have a tiny visor that can have advanced coating or double glass motorcycle visor. There are potential solutions for larger windscreen but it gets tricky, like heated glass or coatings or double panels or design of a new type of aerodynamic wiper, real glass on the outside to avoid scratches etc.
One reason why I think covering it is important is because an enclosed “private” space is what makes cars so popular. I can’t exactly put my finger on it but if velomobiles could replicate that feeling of “being in your own car” it could make these types of “velocars” more popular and lead to less people driving cars.
Again, Podbike is the best design for this but it’s too heavy (65kg) and doesn’t have efficient mechanical transmission. But they have a ton of interest and preorders because they consequently designed to make it appealing - if they could get the costs down to say 1000-2000€ for something like that and lighter, you would be looking at a massive market. Price is the major hurdle really but that is a question of investment and maybe subsidies. And maybe robotics to build them. Or ship them from China.
It’s also kind of inherently a niche product
I don’t see why that would be inherent. You’re right that scooters or pedelecs have inherent advantages in a dense city, but for medium commutes I don’t see a fundamental hurdle for velo cars. If the cycle infrastructure is improved too. There are might be technical solutions to improve turning radius.
You can also stand the podbike vertically on it’s back to save parking space. Not sure how practical that is though haha.
And yeah there are a lot of too heavy velo car concepts. We need to find the right compromise between pure velomobile (e.g quest, quadro etc) and a more practical and open inviting velomobile.
![[meme] if only there were another way](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5d99c673-186d-4189-a15d-d002523bf033.jpeg){kind=link}
I believe we also need better bikes - like velomobiles except designed easier to get in and out and less claustrophobic. Something like the podbike but non-electric. An enclosed space is something the car has that people want. Also recumbent bikes are more comfortable to ride. Something like a “velocar”.
I hate bicycles, they hurt my ass. I’m trying to build my own recumbent tadpole atm and want to build a velocar later.
I think if you want it to be easy to get in and out of, crank forward, or feet forward bicycles are a pretty good idea, like the rans bicycles, the day 6 bicycles, stuff like that. The tradeoff being that the front profile is kind of bunk on those in terms of the aerodynamics, at least, at the cost of the weight it would take to cover it, like a true velomobile. We also gotta ask why you’re covering it. If it’s just safety from weather elements, that’s fine, but it brings other problems, like the enclosed space getting pretty hot if you leave it sitting around, like the shell needing to be visible while still in the rain, and easily see-through, too, which is more of a problem when you don’t have windshield wipers, and when your window’s more slanted, like what it is on most velomobiles that have windows. If you’re adding A/C or heat for thermal regulation, those take up space and weight. Also would probably be a good idea for defogging the window, which is probably a larger concern in an enclosed space where you’re sweating a lot more. I dunno, I’ve just seen a lot of these “bike car” concepts, like the twike, or the podbike, and I haven’t seen much come of any of them, because they’re just too fuckin heavy, and at least in america, everyone’s concerned with what might happen if a driver gets distracted by this weird little bean floating around everywhere, and what happens if they get into a crash. Maybe one might have more luck by cutting weight, adding photovoltaic cells to power some of the electric systems, and then just chasing the maximum aero, like what aptera’s done, but yeah, I haven’t seen anyone actually tackle the problem in a way that makes much sense. I’m also gonna shout out the problem of these being much harder to park than a normal bike on a bike rack. You already see that with recumbents, but you see that even more with velomobiles, and that inefficient stacking might work out to be more concerning at scale, with mass deployment.
It’s also kind of inherently a niche product, with a low market demand, and so that drives up the costs for people who would otherwise be fine with the idea, and that’s all maybe a bigger problem than anything I’ve said thus far. Those who would be interested are probably going to be fine swapping out all the subsystems, and if they’re doing that, they’re probably just interested in buying your canopy, more than anything else, in buying your shell. I think you’re seeing technology play catch-up in terms of e-bikes, but most people at this point are better suited to your standard moped. The honda super cub is still the best selling motor vehicle of all time, and if I remember right, it’s not really even close. People are more willing to dress for the weather, and tolerate that, if they’re not also powering the vehicle, and working up a sweat.
Thanks for the reply, you’re clearly well informed about all the issues. I have some ideas but those are tough problems.
Yeah normal SWB recumbent bicycles are the easiest to hop oh and off and do improve aerodynamics. Personally I also want to build a MBB flevobike design where you steer with your feet, people say they are very fun to ride. Generally recumbents are faster, more comfortable and safer (lower to the ground) than upright.
For velomobiles, the podbike is pioneering the “low entry hurdle”. Not having to “climb in” but just “step in and sit down”" makes a huge difference in marketing I believe. Getting in and out doesn’t have to be that tricky like with pure velomobiles, the orca velomobile also improved this. You don’t really need compromises to make that happen and you reduce the “niche” factor.
Yeah windscreen with rain and condensation is why the best practice right now is to only have a tiny visor that can have advanced coating or double glass motorcycle visor. There are potential solutions for larger windscreen but it gets tricky, like heated glass or coatings or double panels or design of a new type of aerodynamic wiper, real glass on the outside to avoid scratches etc.
One reason why I think covering it is important is because an enclosed “private” space is what makes cars so popular. I can’t exactly put my finger on it but if velomobiles could replicate that feeling of “being in your own car” it could make these types of “velocars” more popular and lead to less people driving cars.
Again, Podbike is the best design for this but it’s too heavy (65kg) and doesn’t have efficient mechanical transmission. But they have a ton of interest and preorders because they consequently designed to make it appealing - if they could get the costs down to say 1000-2000€ for something like that and lighter, you would be looking at a massive market. Price is the major hurdle really but that is a question of investment and maybe subsidies. And maybe robotics to build them. Or ship them from China.
I don’t see why that would be inherent. You’re right that scooters or pedelecs have inherent advantages in a dense city, but for medium commutes I don’t see a fundamental hurdle for velo cars. If the cycle infrastructure is improved too. There are might be technical solutions to improve turning radius.
You can also stand the podbike vertically on it’s back to save parking space. Not sure how practical that is though haha.
And yeah there are a lot of too heavy velo car concepts. We need to find the right compromise between pure velomobile (e.g quest, quadro etc) and a more practical and open inviting velomobile.