- Masimo, the company that sued Apple over patent infringement, has unveiled its own blood oxygen monitoring smartwatch called the Masimo Freedom.
- The Masimo Freedom is a health-focused device that can track blood oxygen levels, hydration index, respiration rate, pulse rate variability, pulse rate, steps, and detect falls.
- The smartwatch is currently in prototype stage and will be available for sale later this year at a price of $999.
Archive link: https://archive.ph/aOUXX
In the name of every medical professional out there:
Fuck Masimo. You piece of shit garbage company.
Masimo does strategically patent troll other companies to keep their monopoly on oxygen saturation technology, deliver a subpar product that is very likely designed with planned obsolescence (which actively endangers patients). It’s an absolute shit show.
Did they sue Samsung? My Galaxy Watch has an O2 sensor.
It’s more about the medical field - we use more precise equipment than can measure a bit more. And very likely Samsung has to pay somone even for the smartwatch version.
There are different types of O2 sensors.
Patent trolling Apple doesn’t seem like a winning move. Can they really sell a smartwatch without infringing on anything in Apple’s patent portfolio? The revenge will be swift and terrifying
They can license it, just like how Apple should have licensed their tech.
ThTs usually the way things work, but that didn’t happen here (obviously). We don’t know who tried to get better terms or who rejected terms
They aren’t a patent troll. This is literally their business. They are sueing apple becsuse they are violating their patent and could have or has had a negative impact on their business. This is the kind of suit patents were designed for.
Patent trolls buy up patents but produce nothing and do nothing with those parents–except for suing people to make money.
I feel like they’d have made more money by licensing their patent to Apple rather than trying to sell a watch for a ridiculous $999 price tag. I’m not saying they were wrong for their patent lawsuit, and it’s nice to see that small companies can still win, but I just don’t see this early product getting enough sales for them to profit.
I might be mistaken, but I think Apple started with a licensing deal and then walked back on it?
Googled and found this
Ahh, fair enough. Missed that bit
Nobody is buying this and I don’t think they are trying very hard to sell it either. Notice that this pricing is only in the U.S. This seems like a ploy to bolster their case for damages and/or royalties in a settlement. Or maybe just part of their patent defense strategy. This company is primarily in medical tech. Even if they aren’t so interested in the consumer market, they have to protect their patent or someone in a market they do care about will get away with it too. I would assume it strengthens their case if they can demonstrate material damages in a market they participate in. So quickly unveil a prototype, price it so there’s little to no demand, don’t bother manufacturing a product nobody wants, win the case, cancel the product.
Hmm, that’s a new theory I haven’t heard. It sounds pretty plausible so I’ll be interested to see if it plays out like that.
I’m definitely curious about the history here, since it seems like Apple would have easily been able to offer more than they can benefit here. Who did what and when? Who tried to compromise with what and who rejected it?
From the PR side, Apple seems reasonable and has a good explanation, but clearly the court did not find their arguments convincing
I don’t know if there are sources I’m not finding, but a lot of people here are very confidently stating as facts, things I don’t see any source for so may be based on irrational hatred of a consumer products company
Charging $999 for a watch is the next idea Apple will steal from them.
The Apple Watch Ultra already costs that much, doesn’t it?
Really? That’s insane.
Not really. Apple charges what it’s idiots will spend.
it’s idiots
goteeeeem
I mean, spellcheck does that more often than not.
If ever there was a time to not rely on autocorrect it is when you are calling people idiots
No it doesn’t, it’s $200 cheaper.
Ah - it’s $1000 CAD. That’s where I was mistaken. USD it would be about $200 cheaper like you mentioned.
It isn’t even an official price.
Price is for United States only and is subject to change based on final design, specifications, and features.
Well, that definitely means the price will go up then.
Wait until you hear about Rolex
Not a fan of Apple but the number of people who would benefit from being able to monitor blood oxygenation is more meaningful to me than Masimo’s ability to sell thousand dollar smartwatches with its patent technology. Would be great if somehow this patent was bought out and made public domain so people outside the upper middle class could have an affordable way to track their vitals.
Apple can easily pay to license the technology and utilise it, and has had multiple chances to over the years at reasonable prices.
This result is only because Apple is run by some absolute morons who were happy to try and steal the tech but got caught with their pants down.
As for making it available to upper middle class, there’s plenty of devices out there already for monitoring blood oxygenation for under $100.
Apple is run by some absolute morons who were happy to try and steal the tech
Xerox PARC intensifies
If you look at almost everything “iconic” that Apple has ever done they have “borrowed” or outright stolen from others. This is entirely on brand for Apple. They just ran up against someone who was willing to push back.
Would be great if somehow this patent was bought out and made public domain so people outside the upper middle class could have an affordable way to track their vitals.
Apple is a strange choice as a champion for that. Their devices always have been notoriously overpriced.
Apple also holds over 95,500 patents. I will never get why some people defend this crazy company. They make underperforming computers and sell them for wayyy over their value.
Please list here all competitors to the MacBook Air in the same price point:
Battery life must be equal or better, no extra points will be given for massive CPU/GPU power. I’ll wait.
Battery life must be equal or better, no extra points will be given for massive CPU/GPU power
LOL. Cherry-picking much? You corpo fanboys are so pathetic.
Nope, I just need a laptop with a 10 hour reliable battery life for work. YMMV of course.
Their devices always have been notoriously overpriced.
I disagree. They don’t offer a low-end option, but their devices are fairly priced for what you get. People keep claiming they are overpriced but when you ask them for a cheaper alternative they always respond with something not even remotely comparable.
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You’re correct that they don’t offer low end but their products are still over priced for what you get.
Yet, no one offers anything comparable for less.
Oh my God
You’re saying they should have included the stand and raised the price of the monitor by $1k ?
The target audience for this monitor usually doesn’t need a stand, so it makes sense to sell it separately.
The stand costs like 15$ to produce (including machine time, material cost and shipping) I bet you can find dozens of chinese clones for under 100$ that function equally as well or better.
Have you looked? I mean, that question is rhetorical… No, you haven’t.
You should check out the competition. Samsung makes some great devices, razer makes some great devices. Even Google makes solid competition, though I prefer others over them.
Have you looked? I mean, that question is rhetorical… No, you haven’t.
Of course. Name one manufacturer that makes anything comparable to a MacBook Pro with M1
You should check out the competition. Samsung makes some great devices, razer makes some great devices. Even Google makes solid competition, though I prefer others over them.
Unfortunately, I have intimate experience with all of those and more. I’m a mobile developer, we buy a lot of phones for testing purposes. We literally have an entire closet full of phones, every even remotely popular model, we’ve got it.
The stuff I’m working on is quite demanding, think computer vision related. We have to make it work on both iOS and Android and the latter is quite a pain in the ass. Device fragmentation is a bitch and performance is significantly below that of iOS devices, even on the high-end models (and we also have to support the low-end stuff). So on Android we have to choose less advanced algorithms, process at a lower internal resolution and frame rate, stuff like that.
I wish Android manufacturers got their shit together and catch up to Apple. It would make my life so much easier if they did, but for now there is a pretty big performance gap.
Compared to MacBook m1 pro, there are plenty of better options. Asus zephyrus lineup for example.
Yes, the m1 has less bugs with peripherals and software than the 2019 MacBook pro, but it is still an absolute pain to use for software dev
I can’t relate to the value you place in them. You couldn’t pay me to use Apple software.
With Windows or Linux, I spend a lot of my time operating the computer. On macOS I just spend my time on the tasks I was working on. The nice thing about Apple’s software is that it gets out of the way so you can focus on what actually matters.
That’s only true if the Apple way works for you. If not it keeps getting in the way in infuriating ways.
I once bought an apple laptop, it lasted a couple months before I ran back to the comfort and productivity of Linux and kde.
It can take a bit of getting used to. The main thing I had to unlearn is expecting things to be complicated, when they aren’t.
That’s debatable. And uncomplicated, assuming that it is, still didn’t mean comfortable.
This can be absolutely true the other way around too, depending on how proficient you are, and what you are used to or find intuitive. For me, macOS is extremely unintuitive, for example, while my fully personalized Linux setup allows me to do what I want. It is very subjective, ultimately.
I’m very proficient in Linux. I used to run it as a desktop about 15 years ago, before I was able to afford a Mac. Still run it on the server, both personally and professionally. It’s come a long way, but it’s not nearly as polished as macOS.
A desktop linux user is not someone “very proficient”
You ran an install script.
I’m very proficient. It’s my career.
Polished doesn’t mean functional or ergonomic, which is something I value a lot. The ability to customize what I want easily is also something that Linux offers much more directly than macOS (which is the definition of getting in the way).
Again, I totally believe that for someone the Mac experience can be superior, but it depends on preference, use, habits and priorities.
I can image that’s how it would be for many people.
I enjoy learning how to operating the computer but I’ve also become convinced software freedom aught to be valued the most.
I enjoy learning how to operating the computer
I was the same, 20 years ago. I’m a professional developer, I already have a lot of complicated stuff I’m dealing with in the software I’m building. I don’t want to mess with anything unrelated as well.
4 years on macbooks as a software dev. Haven’t seen a more annoying OS for power users than OSX. The Apple software is constantly in the way, breaking things or crashing because you plugged in a non apple certified keyboard.
crashing because you plugged in a non apple certified keyboard
Sure dude.
Yup. Also some kernel panics due to non compatible DP adapters. They are picky machines. Those issues were with the 2019 i7 mac pro. My current M1 has issues with certain usb-c docks
Which apple product doesn’t have a chaper alternative?
All of them. Every cheaper alternative is just a crappier product that cheaper because it’s simply not as good.
I’ll take my Garmin over you apple toys any day
Can a Garmin even run apps? It’s a completely different product.
There’s been a Garmin app store for twice as long as Apple has been making watches.
https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/
It’s not at all a different product. It’s a direct competitor who makes a superior product.
Again – I’ve had a smart watch that does all the shit apple watch does, for half a decade before apple even thought about it. And mine can go a month without charging.
He’s full of shit, and the people upvoting him don’t know anything about Garmin watches. Garmin doesn’t compete with apple. They don’t want to compete with apple. Garmin doesn’t take the kitchen sink approach that apple/Google/Samsung do. They focus on fitness and battery life, they’re competing with Fitbit. This liar is pulling the old “I like it, therefore it’s the best at everything” trope. He’s a child. Ignore him.
Like the thousand dollar basic monitor stand?
Or comparing similarly specced macs vs PCs (I bet that’s why they moved away from x86 again, because it was too obvious how overpriced they were when the specs could be compared 1:1).
The thousand dollar monitor stand is not a consumer product and simply sold separately because not a lot of people are going to need it. The monitor it’s meant for is actually a lot cheaper than comparable monitors.
Or comparing similarly specced macs vs PCs
In the x86 era similarly specced PCs had similar prices or were even more expensive. The thing about Mac’s is that while you can get a PC that has some better specs for less, you couldn’t get anything that matched all the specs. It may have had a faster CPU, but would come in a crappy plastic case, weigh a ton and run out of battery in 30 seconds. Or it ran forever on a single charge but had a CPU that was slow as molasses.
(I bet that’s why they moved away from x86 again, because it was too obvious how overpriced they were when the specs could be compared 1:1).
No, it’s because x86 is an overcomplicated mess with terrible performance/watt. x86 CPUs run hot, drain your battery and still don’t perform great. Apple’s M series SoC’s are amazing. A clean, modern ISA, high IPC, low power usage, low heat. It doesn’t matter if my MacBook Pro (M1 Max )runs on battery or wall power, it’s always blazing fast. It has insane battery life, does not get hot and is completely silent.
I was referring to the desktop space. Apple is a lot more competitive in the laptop space (unless you’re a gamer), but their desktop specs always made me laugh at the price they ask for it. Granted, I haven’t looked recently, but any time I’ve looked in the past, their price seems about 1k too high for what they are offering.
But yeah, x86 laptops are generally a shitshow. I had a decent personal one, though that was used more like a very portable desktop than a true laptop. That one just stopped charging one day (though its timing was impeccable because I was already in the process of moving my files to a new desktop I had just built, just had to pull the drives out to get the rest of it). And a cheap one I threw Linux on for school that did the job. But my first work laptop at my current job was garbage and the current one is relatively better, but also has a bunch of issues, enough that I don’t think very highly of HP even ignoring their printer bs.
Ah, okay then. Have a nice day :)
I think it’s hilarious that you show proof of how overpriced Apple products are and there are still fanboys that down vote you.
I think it’s sad. This corpo worship results in higher prices for all of us. Apple created this weird pseudo religion that makes other vendors (like Samsung) raising their prices more acceptable while competition should actually put prices under pressure.
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They notoriously sell older components and technologies in their brand new computers.
I have one I got for free that was made in 2020. It’s a MacBook Air. It has 8gb of RAM… I don’t even know how they found RAM chips that small in 2020. It freezes every day when all I’m doing is running a web browser. This computer was $1,000 at the time it launched.
The base amount of RAM is a bit low, I agree. But why would you order one with less RAM than you need? I have an M1 Max with 64GB and it just flies. No matter what I throw at it, it stays fast and responsive.
Them: theyve always been over priced, here’s an example where their 1k device had a pathetically small ram for the cost
You: well why didn’t you spend MORE to get a FUNCTIONING device, hmmm?
My cell phone in 2020 had more than 8g of ram and cost the same as that laptop, no excuses
My phone in 2019 had 50% more ram and cost 50% less.
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Copyright and patent laws need to die.
Only idiots think that work wouldn’t get done without them.
$999
I have no use for a HR smart watch but at this price it’s not even a possibility. Hundreds of dollars is acceptable but this is a hard no for me. My Casio G-Shock GBD 200 + GadgetBridge has all the features I want from a smart watch and costs about $150.
However, I will say kudos to Masimo for sticking it to Apple. Not many people can go against a giant like that and win.This is less than some of the more feature-rich Garmin watches. That said, Garmin’s offerings are best-in-class, so they can justify it.
Garmins (or most of them) also last for a month with a single charge, unlike most smart watches. For me that’s worth a little premium.
Yeah I laughed when I saw the battery life on a smart watch. I have to charge by Garmin every a week with regular use and I still think that’s too frequent.
I’ve never gotten more than a week tops from my Garmin watches, a handful of runs and it needs a recharge. And I need to fully charge it if it’s a long run or risk it dying on me while I’m running.
Depends on the model and your settings I guess. I use a Fenix5, and it lasts like 18-20 days with a run every second day (tho I keep pulse ox off). Could be more if I had gotten a solar one, but those were pricey back when I got mine…
I’ve only used the upper end of the forerunner line. But getting 18+ days from the fenix with regular sports use seems well above spec, they spec it with up to 57h in GPS mode and 18d in regular smart watch mode without sports activities.
Hum , weird. Either I charge it rarely enough that I’m fooling myself, or I turned off some off some features garmin didn’t think people would…
Garmin software, particularly their integration with third parties absolutely bloody sucks. Their hardware is amazing though.
I haven’t had an issue in the 8 years I’ve owned Garmin stuff. What apps are you having trouble with? I sync with Strava, training peaks, swim coach, humango, and probably others over the years
That is more than the last two phones I’ve bought put together, Holy Balls. No way am I spending a grand on a smart watch.
The G shock sounds tempting.
You were never their intended audience to begin with. If you’re going to balk at a mere $1k, you’re not the customers they want.
Yeah, you could get a really nice traditional watch for a fraction of the cost and have money left over. And it won’t be obsoleted by a company turning off their servers 5 years down the line.
Really I don’t see the point of smart watches.
For 999usd, they can get fucked
A Fitbit costing less than 200 can do most of these things. Granted you need a Google account, but at least you don’t need a fucking loan to get one.
You should take a look at Withings. Uou have to like the analog retro look, but it has all thoses features (including ECG).
When you’re defending patents you have to demonstrate you’re developing your own products or licensing them and so you can sue for damages. At this price point this “prototype” is just a loophole so they can extort Apple.
You make it sound like they’re being assholes to Apple when in reality, Apple is the bad guy here. Apple was going to license the technology but instead tried to hire all the engineers and people who developed it and then make their own version in house. Genuinely just thought they could steal the tech and then out lawyer the smaller company.
In this case Apple clearly is in the wrong and is now fucking customers over because of its shitty practices.
Fun fact; there can be more than one greedy asshole corporation.
Yes I can see how the company suing another company that has stolen its tech, stolen its high level employees and then refuses to admit any fault or issue has absolutely no base to sue on.
I agree in general with your statement, but it’s completely wrong here. There is definitely a giant greedy asshole corporation here, and with the history that Apple was going to license it from them and didn’t have an issue previously I know which one it is.
Apple sucks for hiring in Mossimo’s engineering team and reinventing the wheel. Mossimo sucks for being a patent troll.
A patent troll is considered to be a company that just sits on patents and hopes to sue companies for profit primarily without having actual products.
Mossimo makes a tonne of products and has over a billion in revenue. It’s not a patent troll.
I spelled it wrong via mobile–it’s Masimo. Mossimo is a clothing brand.
ESH
I think the case is still developping, but I hate these laws that forbid employees from working at other companies. I thate to take Apple’s side, but I don’t think hiring the engineers was wrong.
Like you accummulate knowledge at your current company, and you’re not supposed to use it ever in any job? Bullshit. Masimo could have offered their knowlesge employees better salaries stock options so they stay, at the end of this case if Masimo wins, it’s the employees that will lose.
Anyone working in a specialized field will find it hard to be hired as new companies will be afraid of the same thing here.
Do… do you seriously think poaching employees to recreate technology to the point of literally infringing on a patent is justified, while then extolling the virtues of a theoretical free market which by definition enforces competition through strict regulation?
Man capitalism really does a number on the brain
I am saying that from an employee perspective, what is my reason to support Masimo? Unless I am a suck up for corporations, why would I even support Masimo. The way I see it, the more restriction a company has on its employees (ie you are forbidden from working at a competitor with your expertise) the less power the employees have.
How is this even an argument for capitalism? Just shouting capitalism does not earn you free points. Think it through, step by step, human-gpt.
I mean as long as it’s apple and not some small company or individual, they can extort away.
That’s trademarks, not patents (although in rare cases “implicit licensing” can be a thing if you don’t act on known infringement)
Pebble - $99
Pebble Steel - $149
Now Pebble is gone and Masimo is selling a $999 smartwatch.
Apple’s cheapest watch is $249.
All I want is a watch like the Pebble again. I don’t need color or all this extra health stuff.
Which is odd because I do want the health stuff, but don’t want the rest of that stuff that is useless to me. I don’t need the texting, music, weather, or the phone stuff - my smart phone still needs to be in bluetooth range for it to work anyway.
But I do value the ability to take a pulse, blood pressure, and count steps. It has increased my self-awareness and improved my health consciousness - small changes can make big differences. And for $40US, I found a decent watch that actually works pretty well.
Take a look at Withings.
I really like Garmin for this. Lots of models to choose from to find your niche (eg, they have running focused, scuba diving focused, or just looks like a regular watch with no gps). What’s cool is their ecosystem is NOT to do much smartwatch stuff. It’s all about health focus. Or maybe fitness focus I guess.
Edit: oh I reread and saw you want blood pressure. They don’t do this that I know of.
Garmin is also the only fitness tracker that isn’t just like explicitly selling your data. But then again who’s to say that won’t change tomorrow.
May I ask which watch you ended up with?
I bought a FITVII smartwatch from Amazon, (the price has gone up a bit since I ordered mine), after seeing a review of smart watches on a tech website. It was rated as their “Best Budget” -YMMV- smart watch.
A word of warning - it took over 3 months to receive the watch even though it was listed as in stock with 10pcs available. In truth I forgot about it until it showed up in the mail…
Agreed on all accounts except for weather updates. I got my watch for the health tracking and love it for it. But I have been slowly won over by the other little things that give me info about the world at a glance but don’t take me out of it. Weather and directions especially.
I always tell people I wish the watch was the smart revolution instead of the phone because it augments daily life so well while our phones so easily become a distraction (though admittedly often a welcome one).
If that’s not FOSS, then there no “Freedom” in that either.
My galaxy watch I bought many years ago has this same feature, is cheaper, and looks amazing. I got the “classic” model with the turning frame. It’s an outstanding watch even to this day. No lag, great battery, and very bright even in sunlight.
Watch 4? I got the non-classic and my battery sucks ass now. I’m looking at replacing the battery now
Yeah got a galaxy watch 2 classic years ago and it needs charging every day now, and it sometimes randomly drains the battery in like 1 hour.
But I’m honestly surprised of its longevity, it outlasted 2 phones
Hell, my Watch 4 Classic needs to be charged daily as well, but I think it’s mostly because I have it continuously monitoring my heart rate + stress levels and I use the always on display setting extensively cause I want my watch to look like a watch.
I enjoy my $26 watch
I enjoy my $0 watch (I don’t have one)
I use to not wear one but I got myself a PineTime and it is very handy for my current job which revolves heavily around time.
The Pinetime is an awesome watch. Basic functionality, but…way more than you’d think for the price and the simple UI. It’s crazy what that thing can do.
I pretty much just use it for a watch and phone notifications. There are games on it that I don’t play, the HR monitor isn’t that great though. A great price for a fun little open source watch.
I still have my teeth.
Mine also cost $0 (I got it from my community’s free page)
I work in many dusty, gritty places, machine shops included. I love my $60 watch, it’s been to 4 continents and back for 12yrs now.
Slight chip in the edge of the crystal, some mild scratches too. I’m just happy to not contribute to the waste stream by buying one reliable item, and cherishing it even when it gets a bit beat up.
Do these kind of apple/google watches hold up? How hard is battery replacement?
I have around 12 watches. Only 2 of them cost more than $200 and both of those were gifts. I’ve never had the desire to have a smart watch let alone one that costs $1,000 but I can see the value in having a device that can measure certain parameters for medical reasons.
No
Not three-fiddly?
🤣🤣
I am very curious to see if this will be the first smartwatch that works with tattooed wrists. None of the health & security features have ever worked for me with any of the major brands.
Probably not, most of those sensors work by shining an LED light through the skin and monitoring reflection/scatter as a cheap form of photoplethysmography. Anything capable of absorbing that light, like the pigment used in tattoos, will prevent it from working correctly (at least out of the box, there may be some way to adjust for it but I do not think it would be very accurate).
An infrared sensor could work, depending on the ink type. Unfortunately those are more expensive.
Wear it on your ankle and make up a cool story about your criminal past.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
